My 9 Simplified Layouts Confusion

Which layout is right for me?

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply
Glenn
Member
Member
Posts: 149
Joined: May 11th, 2015, 11:00 pm
THS Average: 170
Positive Axis Point: 4.375 over & .5 up
Speed: 15.2 (foul line)
Rev Rate: 184
Axis Tilt: 10
Axis Rotation: 50
Light Oil Ball: Columbia 300 Nitrous
Preferred Company: Roto Grip
Location: Mid-west

My 9 Simplified Layouts Confusion

Post by Glenn » November 7th, 2019, 3:12 pm

I am gonna apologize up-front for the length of this post.
OK. I am confused. I have been viewing the #MoMonday videos on various topics, and reading the mail related to those topics. With changing USBC rules, market pressures, and technology changes, Mo's position on layouts is changing – becoming more “generic” in nature:

1. Initially, the Dual Angle methodology was used that involved some math and a knowledge of the bowler's stats to generate suggested layouts to tune the ball's reaction/shape.

2. Then came suggested (asymmetrical) layouts for high/medium/low track bowlers. The A – Sharper Breakpoint; B – Midlane; C – Control; D – Max Flare; and E&F – Reduced Flare.
Note that the sample layouts used a PAP of 4-3/4” over and 0” up/down, and the actual layout might appear different based on the bowler's PAP.

3. The symmetric layout suggestions become more defined (actual layout recommendations vs positional layouts). The A – All Purpose; B – Most Total Hook; C – Smooth Hook; D – Length with Control; E – Total Control; and F – Max Flare.
Note that the Drilling Angles shown for these layouts is 5” over and 0” up/down – Adjust for other PAPs.

4. And, the Radical (asymmetric) drill sheets became more generic in nature, and the better the ball design, the better they worked. There was a clamor for more easy-to-read drill sheets by some ball drillers, and Radical developed that type of drill sheet for those drillers. The A – Length with Max Hit; B – Length with Control; C – Maximum Flare, and D – Less Hook with Big Hit were the result of that project.
But note that if you preferred the tilt-specific, more detailed layouts, you were encouraged to continue to use those time-proven layouts. The Axis Point for these layouts was 5” over and 3/8” up.

5. Today, we have the 9 Simplified Layouts (4 for Syms and 5 for Asyms).
For the Syms, A – Max Flip; B – Most Versatile; C – Smoother Hook; and D – Smaller Hook.
For the Asyms, A – Max Flip; B – Most Versatile; C – Smoother Hook, D – Midlane Hook, and E – Small Hook.
Note that it is stated that these are all the layouts you need under the new USBC rules; no need for the tilt-specific, more detailed layouts from the past. (Is Eric Hartwell out of a job?? LOL!)
Note that the chart uses a 5” horizontal axis coordinate – Adjust the Drilling Angle for other horizontal axis coordinates.

Now for my confusion about the new tools.

A) The categories are fluid and not consistent from publication-to-publication. In one place as an example, B – Midlane (seems to come and go in various sheets) or B – Length with Control; and D – Max Flare or C – Max Flare.

B) The descriptions are not consistent. For example, All Purpose versus Most Versatile.

C) In the 9 Simplified Layouts as I understand it, the suggested layout is positioned on the ball as dictated by the 5” horizontal axis coordinate, and you would measure back from that layout with your own coordinates to arrive at the Drilling Angle (to give you a layout reference for your bowler specs).
In previous sheets, you would mark out the layout as recommended (adjust for Pin distance, etc.) on the ball, and the layout would be positioned on the ball according to your specs.

Item C) is my biggest concern. Do you actually lay out the ball using the 5” coordinate? For example, the 70 x 3-1/2 x 20 layout for the 5” coordinate would be 60 x 3-1/2 x 20 for my own coordinates. Is this correct, or am I WAAAAAY off base?? Asking for a friend.
Stroker
A/T = ~8.5 Degrees (can adjust it from 5 to 17.5)
A/R = ~50 Degrees
Speed = 14.5 (monitor)
Revs = ~270 RPM
Right-Handed
PAP = 4.375 over & .75 up (flaring)
PAP = 5 over & 1 up (non-flaring)

44boyd
Member
Member
Posts: 466
Joined: January 25th, 2017, 3:10 am
THS Average: 188
Preferred Company: Radical
Location: Valrico Florida

Re: My 9 Simplified Layouts Confusion

Post by 44boyd » November 7th, 2019, 6:19 pm

No, use your pap. His last video he showed the guys layout for most versatile and compared it to the drill sheet. He’s trying to create better PSOs by giving some layouts to counter the pin above or below crowd. Is it perfect? No, but better than what the norm has been.
Stacy

User avatar
EricHartwell
Trusted Source
Trusted Source
Posts: 3588
Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
Speed: 16 off hand
Rev Rate: 330
Axis Tilt: 12
Axis Rotation: 45
Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous
Medium Oil Ball: Motiv Villain, Hammer Nail, Brunswick True Motion
Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer, Columbia Nitrous
Location: Michigan

Re: My 9 Simplified Layouts Confusion

Post by EricHartwell » November 7th, 2019, 10:28 pm

Am I out of a job?
No, I'm still an Electrician with a passion for bowling.
Will there be less to do around here, yes and that is already the case. Once it was known that Mo wasn't going to be here, traffic has slowed considerably. I just refuse to be a part of facebook so I'm stuck here.

Here are my 9 Simplified Layouts...

1. Totally Strong
2. Long Sport
3. Midlane
4. Benchmark
5. Medium Sport
6. Short Sport
7. Long and Strong
8. Control
9. low flare

These are the adjectives I chose to used based on the information in the wiki.

Mo is educating proshop operators. These 9 simplified layouts I would expect to keep the pin away from the finger holes or in them. Nobody wants to do free warrantee work or pay for repairs.
Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand

Glenn
Member
Member
Posts: 149
Joined: May 11th, 2015, 11:00 pm
THS Average: 170
Positive Axis Point: 4.375 over & .5 up
Speed: 15.2 (foul line)
Rev Rate: 184
Axis Tilt: 10
Axis Rotation: 50
Light Oil Ball: Columbia 300 Nitrous
Preferred Company: Roto Grip
Location: Mid-west

Re: My 9 Simplified Layouts Confusion

Post by Glenn » November 7th, 2019, 11:41 pm

Stacy,
I am gonna have to find that video you reference, and check it out.

Eric,
You would be surprised at the number of drilled balls in my area where the Pin is obviously too close to the finger holes. I see it in the pros but they don't care as they don't keep a bowling ball very long.
And, I agree with you on Facebook ...

44boyd
Member
Member
Posts: 466
Joined: January 25th, 2017, 3:10 am
THS Average: 188
Preferred Company: Radical
Location: Valrico Florida

Re: My 9 Simplified Layouts Confusion

Post by 44boyd » November 8th, 2019, 3:27 am

[youtube][/youtube]
Stacy

User avatar
DarkHorse
Member
Member
Posts: 221
Joined: June 15th, 2013, 12:06 am
Location: USA

Re: My 9 Simplified Layouts Confusion

Post by DarkHorse » November 8th, 2019, 11:22 pm

In general, with the new USBC rules, Mo has settled on 3 locations for the PSA to create desired ball motion for most bowlers:

In the thumbhole, between the thumbhole and VAL, and on the VAL. Again, pretty generic, and will probably work for most league bowlers.

My PAP has a 5" horizontal measurement, so i can just use whatever's on the sheet.
For my friend with a 4.25" measurement, I would adjust the Drilling Angle lower, since there's less space between his PAP and his thumbhole.
70 degrees might get the PSA in my thumbhole, but will be past his thumbhole. He might need a 50 degree Drilling Angle.

Clear as mud?
Right Handed
Speed: 18 mph (foul line)
Rev Rate: ~350 rpm
Tilt: 10*
Rotation: 55*
PAP: 5 1/8" right, 1/2" up

dballz
Member
Member
Posts: 200
Joined: July 16th, 2010, 5:13 pm
THS Average: 220
Positive Axis Point: 5 1/4 right & 3/4 up
Speed: 16-17
Rev Rate: 300
Axis Tilt: 8*
Axis Rotation: 45*

Re: My 9 Simplified Layouts Confusion

Post by dballz » December 5th, 2019, 4:09 pm

Will these 9 layouts be added to the Wiki, under the pro shop / layout section?
Right hand
PAP: 5 1/4" right & 3/4" up
Speed: 16-17
Revs: 290-320
Tilt: 7*
Rotation: 35-45*

User avatar
EricHartwell
Trusted Source
Trusted Source
Posts: 3588
Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
Speed: 16 off hand
Rev Rate: 330
Axis Tilt: 12
Axis Rotation: 45
Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous
Medium Oil Ball: Motiv Villain, Hammer Nail, Brunswick True Motion
Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer, Columbia Nitrous
Location: Michigan

Re: My 9 Simplified Layouts Confusion

Post by EricHartwell » December 5th, 2019, 11:19 pm

dballz wrote:
December 5th, 2019, 4:09 pm
Will these 9 layouts be added to the Wiki, under the pro shop / layout section?
They are already there. The basic arsenal is part pf the Dual Angle Ratio Guide...
http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index. ... atio_Guide

The Sport layouts here...
http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index. ... ng_Layouts

The low flare layout was derived from forum discussions and personal experience.
Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand

dballz
Member
Member
Posts: 200
Joined: July 16th, 2010, 5:13 pm
THS Average: 220
Positive Axis Point: 5 1/4 right & 3/4 up
Speed: 16-17
Rev Rate: 300
Axis Tilt: 8*
Axis Rotation: 45*

Re: My 9 Simplified Layouts Confusion

Post by dballz » December 6th, 2019, 11:13 pm

Thanks Eric!
Right hand
PAP: 5 1/4" right & 3/4" up
Speed: 16-17
Revs: 290-320
Tilt: 7*
Rotation: 35-45*

Post Reply