Pin-to-PAP Distances

Which layout is right for me?

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Glenn
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Pin-to-PAP Distances

Post by Glenn » October 9th, 2019, 11:44 pm

I want to preface this post by saying that I understand ideas and suggestions can change with new information, more experiences, and advancing bowling technology.

Having said that, I was reviewing the most recent MoMonday video where Mo answers a question about Pin-to-PAP distances. Mo talked about the different zones, and things were going well for me until he discussed what I call the No Zone. This zone is the distances between 2.5” and 3.5” that is too susceptible to changes in lane conditions, and shot-to-shot variations to be used.

What !?

I have a couple of Radical balls drilled with a 3” Pin-to-PAP, and I went looking through my records for the source of this recommendation. I found a Radical document describing the “Most Versatile Symmetrical Layout” (70 x 4.5 x 40), and the “Skid/Flip Asymmetrical Layout” (75 x 3 x 25) giving the Guru Mighty specs. I have my GM (and one other ball) drilled that way.

Have I shot myself in the foot??

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bowl1820
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Re: Pin-to-PAP Distances

Post by bowl1820 » October 10th, 2019, 12:14 am

Here's the video being referenced:

The A-B-C Zones of Pin to PAP Layouts - #MoMonday

Mo takes a viewer question about how far you have to move the Pin to PAP distance in order to see a difference in ball reaction. He breaks it down brilliantly using his "A-B-C Zones". This, along with the "Low Flare Zone" are what you need to know about what these Pin to PAP locations do. Most importantly, learn about the zone TO AVOID AT ALL COSTS which is eloquently referred to as "Twitch City".

[youtube][/youtube]
"REMEMBER, it isn't how much the ball hooks, it's where."

44boyd
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Re: Pin-to-PAP Distances

Post by 44boyd » October 10th, 2019, 12:32 am

I believe the 75x3x25 is a layout close to the recommended layout to simulate a “motion” hole 70x3x35. Should be fine if you like them. Some people say that want to see backend but then complain when they have to move in off their down and in shot.
Stacy

Glenn
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Positive Axis Point: 4.375 over & .5 up
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Light Oil Ball: Columbia 300 Nitrous
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Re: Pin-to-PAP Distances

Post by Glenn » October 10th, 2019, 1:28 pm

Stacy,

That's probably true if you could drill the thumb holes deeper. But it seems that is illegal, so this layout remains suspect in my mind. TDK

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Re: Pin-to-PAP Distances

Post by 44boyd » October 10th, 2019, 2:05 pm

Only thing deemed illegal was the smaller hole at the bottom of the hole Mo previously suggested.
Stacy

Glenn
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Positive Axis Point: 4.375 over & .5 up
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Light Oil Ball: Columbia 300 Nitrous
Preferred Company: Roto Grip
Location: Mid-west

Re: Pin-to-PAP Distances

Post by Glenn » October 10th, 2019, 3:40 pm

Really?
I always liked making the hole a tad smaller at the bottom of the insert length to about 4 inches to give me a "shelf" to bottom out the insert (keeping it from going too deep when being installed). I have a longer thumb so I always need/like to have the thumb hole deeper than the insert length.

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Re: Pin-to-PAP Distances

Post by 44boyd » October 10th, 2019, 4:17 pm

I think that’s why he promotes using the largest size slug so you can remove more material. Yeah, the document you mentioned in one of these threads address the going a drill bit smaller at the bottom was illegal.
Stacy

KYBOB
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Re: Pin-to-PAP Distances

Post by KYBOB » October 11th, 2019, 5:24 am

You guys need to review the "seminar" video..... Mo says IT IS LEGAL TO DROP DOWN A SIZE SMALER THAN THE INSERT or INTERCHANGEABLE THUMB AND DRILL THE THUMB HOLE DEEPER.......starts at 1:00:19. All that aside, I haven't seen a thumbhole yet that doesn't extend below an insert when one is used.
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STATS:

LH
PAP = 4"< x 1"^
Speed = 18-19 off hand
Rev Rate = 250-275
AR = 45*-50*
AT = 23*

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