Medium length/heavy volume sport patterns kill me. Help.

Which layout is right for me?

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Mongo
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Medium length/heavy volume sport patterns kill me. Help.

Post by Mongo » August 6th, 2019, 11:54 pm

So, we all have conditions we struggle on/don't match up to.

Mine is the medium length (37'-40') heavy volume sport pattern. With my ball roll, any ball not spelled urethane goes sideways out of the pattern. Since I'm LH, moving in and using tons of angle in fronts doesn't really help because they never transition and fresh wet/dry is horrible with big angles.

So, that being said, I need some layouts/ball suggestions that will allow me to keep the ball in a somewhat tight range, but give me more than a Purple Hammer (great ball but carry isn't my friend at this length).

Now, before we get started, don't throw a bunch of low sum/big surface ideas. Been there, done that. Sideways....but bigger sideways.

Right now, I want to try a medium strength symmetrical (diff < .045) with a large VAL (slow transition) and shorter pin (~ 3") with some surface (ex. - IQ Tour with a 3 x 70). I'm open to suggestions, but I'm getting killed on these things and would like to be ~competitive....or at least feel like I have a prayer.

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350-375 RPM
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Rotation - 55 / 70
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Re: Medium length/heavy volume sport patterns kill me. Help

Post by 44boyd » August 7th, 2019, 3:16 pm

Do you have anything that lets you play left of 10 on a house shot?
Stacy

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Re: Medium length/heavy volume sport patterns kill me. Help

Post by Mongo » August 7th, 2019, 5:21 pm

44boyd wrote:Do you have anything that lets you play left of 10 on a house shot?
My home house shot has a lot of friction up front and is slicker than most.

I've got a Mag 035 (4 x 50) that has been usable when the volume isn't too high, but get north of 25 mL or a really smooth surface and it's jumpy, too.

That being said, not really.

Urethane let's me play the lanes like I need to, but doesn't have enough pop to carry. End result, I'm trying to stuff every shot and can't loosen up.
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Re: Medium length/heavy volume sport patterns kill me. Help

Post by Mongo » August 7th, 2019, 6:58 pm

Truth be told, if I could a Mag 035 clone, I'd love to put a shorter/lower pin on it with some surface.
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Re: Medium length/heavy volume sport patterns kill me. Help

Post by 44boyd » August 7th, 2019, 8:22 pm

Not trying to come off harsh, but you’re doing lefty wrong. On short patterns you’re trying to cross with righties at the heads and that’s not good. Need to neuter your hand some so you can stay left. I haven’t seen a video of you shooting left of 15 so that’d be the wrong game plan on a sport shot if you can’t keep up the scoring pace as the righties transition. I don’t think there is a ball that’ll fit your current plan of attack that’ll help.
Stacy

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Re: Medium length/heavy volume sport patterns kill me. Help

Post by Mongo » August 7th, 2019, 9:26 pm

44boyd wrote:Not trying to come off harsh, but you’re doing lefty wrong. On short patterns you’re trying to cross with righties at the heads and that’s not good. Need to neuter your hand some so you can stay left. I haven’t seen a video of you shooting left of 15 so that’d be the wrong game plan on a sport shot if you can’t keep up the scoring pace as the righties transition. I don’t think there is a ball that’ll fit your current plan of attack that’ll help.
Nope.

I'm staying left and keeping my angles tight. The only time I get right of 12 is on longer patterns, but even then I'm wary of the righty traffic. I generally try to keep my angles tight and avoid covering much lane while avoiding the RH laydown spots.

That being said, on these heavy volume/low taper/37-40' patterns, when my ball comes out of a flatter angle it duckhooks in the friction. I can usually get there with urethane, but can't create any miss and carry is iffy at best.

I either need to find a ball/layout combo where I can stay in a small region of the lane or completely change my ball roll (at least on these medium length/heavy volume patterns).

I'm probably going to start a thread in the coaching area discussing sport conditions and the challenges on the left.
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Re: Medium length/heavy volume sport patterns kill me. Help

Post by 44boyd » August 7th, 2019, 10:00 pm

Mongo wrote:
I either need to find a ball/layout combo where I can stay in a small region of the lane or completely change my ball roll (at least on these medium length/heavy volume patterns).

I'm probably going to start a thread in the coaching area discussing sport conditions and the challenges on the left.
There’s no need to reinvent the wheel, every pro lefty has articles and videos about this. I’ve not seen you post a video playing left of 15, I’d like to see it. Definitely don’t think it’s the arrow.
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Re: Medium length/heavy volume sport patterns kill me. Help

Post by Mongo » August 8th, 2019, 12:19 am

44boyd wrote:
There’s no need to reinvent the wheel, every pro lefty has articles and videos about this. I’ve not seen you post a video playing left of 15, I’d like to see it. Definitely don’t think it’s the arrow.
It is telling when you have both Rhino and Ciminelli saying they'd go RH tomorrow if they could.

Butturff is a mutant and doesn't count. :P

I need to organize my thoughts and post this stuff in a different thread. I could use some help. Turn 50 next year and wouldn't mind bowling with the old guys some.
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Re: Medium length/heavy volume sport patterns kill me. Help

Post by 44boyd » August 8th, 2019, 12:47 am

You’re in Colorado correct? Id look up Mike Dias Gold Coach and he bowls on the 50 tour. He might be able to give you some insight.
Stacy

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Re: Medium length/heavy volume sport patterns kill me. Help

Post by Mongo » August 8th, 2019, 9:30 pm

44boyd wrote:You’re in Colorado correct? Id look up Mike Dias Gold Coach and he bowls on the 50 tour. He might be able to give you some insight.
About 16 hours east....Kentucky.

I could go bother Jim Merrill again. I've worked with Andy Parker in Dayton a little, too.

To be frank, I'd love to get a full assessment (game, arsenal, strategy, etc.) from somebody who I trust. Full breakdown of what I'm working with vs. what I'll see at PBA50 stops and other stuff.

I'd like a take a decent swing at some senior stuff next year, but, right now, I'm not there. I need some brutal honesty.
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Re: Medium length/heavy volume sport patterns kill me. Help

Post by 44boyd » August 8th, 2019, 10:17 pm

Go see Mitch Beasley in Nashville.
Stacy

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Re: Medium length/heavy volume sport patterns kill me. Help

Post by Mongo » August 9th, 2019, 1:20 am

44boyd wrote:Go see Mitch Beasley in Nashville.
I've got a couple of friends at EBI, might shake the tree.
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Re: Medium length/heavy volume sport patterns kill me. Help

Post by 44boyd » August 9th, 2019, 1:30 am

You throw the ball well, just got to keep you left of 10 with the light oil on the 50.
Stacy

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Re: Medium length/heavy volume sport patterns kill me. Help

Post by Mongo » August 9th, 2019, 3:04 am

44boyd wrote:You throw the ball well, just got to keep you left of 10 with the light oil on the 50.
I can handle long and short, it's the middle lengths that own me.

Well, specifically medium length, higher volume sport patterns with very little front/back taper.....which seems to be most sport patterns I bowl on.

:)
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Re: Medium length/heavy volume sport patterns kill me. Help

Post by b3y0nd3r » August 9th, 2019, 12:37 pm

if you are hitting past the pocket on the left, move back on the lanes. If your hitting the head pin, move up.

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Re: Medium length/heavy volume sport patterns kill me. Help

Post by TonyPR » August 10th, 2019, 6:52 pm

Have you tried Urethane with a big core like the Widow or Hot Cell?

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Re: Medium length/heavy volume sport patterns kill me. Help

Post by Mongo » August 11th, 2019, 8:33 pm

TonyPR wrote:Have you tried Urethane with a big core like the Widow or Hot Cell?
I do, but I've got a Purple Hammer and it's just all around better, just not quite enough when oil is north of 25 mL. Need about 50 more RPM. :)
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Re: Medium length/heavy volume sport patterns kill me. Help

Post by PlainUgly » August 18th, 2019, 3:55 pm

did u tried a medium sport shot layout on a ball with a non skit a grip surface ?
im lefty too and my specs are not far away from yours. I took an old motiv primal tv4 and put a
50 x 2,75 x 50 on it. Resurface with 360/500/1000/2000 abralon on deros.

this ball has its defined area and does not overreact on wet/dry, which sportpattern usually have because of the double stripped backends.

most times pin carry is good, but if midlane becomes to dry at all the little ball motion burns off to early so im forced to go deeper on laydown, but unfortunately this surface/layout setup makes bigger angles impossible.

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Re: Medium length/heavy volume sport patterns kill me. Help

Post by Mongo » August 20th, 2019, 11:51 pm

PlainUgly wrote:did u tried a medium sport shot layout on a ball with a non skit a grip surface ?
im lefty too and my specs are not far away from yours. I took an old motiv primal tv4 and put a
50 x 2,75 x 50 on it. Resurface with 360/500/1000/2000 abralon on deros.

this ball has its defined area and does not overreact on wet/dry, which sportpattern usually have because of the double stripped backends.

most times pin carry is good, but if midlane becomes to dry at all the little ball motion burns off to early so im forced to go deeper on laydown, but unfortunately this surface/layout setup makes bigger angles impossible.
I've played with a couple of balls with shorter pin to PAP distances ( < 3 " ) but had a higher drill angle on them. I might plug a couple and try some low ratio layouts with a shorter pin.

I've got a Tremendous with an 80 x 2 x 40, but it's still a bit more downlane than I want. Luckily, I've got plenty of stuff lying around, so might as well try something different.

Maybe a 2 x 50 on a symmetrical? I'll just have to see what I've got gathering dust. :)
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Re: Medium length/heavy volume sport patterns kill me. Help

Post by kajmk » August 27th, 2019, 5:29 pm

A question from a stone age bowler ...
Thinking about my father and uncle bringing home their first bowling balls from a church bowling center which we being closed. The center allowed guys to bring the ball of their choice home. Some time after that, a two bus trek to a sporting good store to have 3 holes punched into an Ebonite rubber ball Tornado ...
I wonder what they'd think today ...

On the surface, it's like comparing catapults to cruise missiles

Regarding bowling balls ...
Do you maintain a matrix with variables and combinations ??

Kudos to all of you who have command of this subject.

Just wondering ...

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