layout reactive ball roll like urethane or low flare layout

Which layout is right for me?

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KYBOB
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layout reactive ball roll like urethane or low flare layout

Post by KYBOB » July 11th, 2019, 7:16 pm

EricHartwell....would like your input for:

1) layout for "reactive to roll like urethane"


2) low flare layout (whats the purpose/use for this layout?)

Need suggestions for ball from the current Radical lineup and what surfaces to use on each layout

Thanks
KyBOB
________________________________

STATS:

LH
PAP = 4"< x 1"^
Speed = 18-19 off hand
Rev Rate = 250-275
AR = 45*-50*
AT = 23*

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Mongo
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Re: layout reactive ball roll like urethane or low flare lay

Post by Mongo » July 12th, 2019, 3:08 am

KYBOB wrote:EricHartwell....would like your input for:

1) layout for "reactive to roll like urethane"


2) low flare layout (whats the purpose/use for this layout?)

Need suggestions for ball from the current Radical lineup and what surfaces to use on each layout

Thanks
Is this for the sandpaper gutters you are currently bowling on?
USBC Silver Certified Coach
JMerrell wrote:Mongo,
We need to work on getting that teddy bear body of yours more open throughout the approach.

KYBOB
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Posts: 123
Joined: January 26th, 2010, 3:31 am
THS Average: 214
Positive Axis Point: 4" Left - 1"^
Speed: 18-19 (off hand)
Rev Rate: 275
Axis Tilt: 23*
Axis Rotation: 50+-
Preferred Company: Morich, Radical
Location: Nicholasville, KY

Re: layout reactive ball roll like urethane or low flare lay

Post by KYBOB » July 12th, 2019, 4:11 am

Mongo wrote:
Is this for the sandpaper gutters you are currently bowling on?
Do I know you, or you me ? You must have me confused with someone else, so go away!........ :lol:

Sandpaper to you maybe, for me it's a like a box of chocolates ......I never know what I'm gonna get!
KyBOB
________________________________

STATS:

LH
PAP = 4"< x 1"^
Speed = 18-19 off hand
Rev Rate = 250-275
AR = 45*-50*
AT = 23*

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trackbowler
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Re: layout reactive ball roll like urethane or low flare lay

Post by trackbowler » July 13th, 2019, 9:28 pm

KYBOB, with that much tilt I don't know if you need a low flare layout/urethane. I would recommend you try a Counter Attack Solid at xx - 4 1/2 - 25.
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EricHartwell
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Re: layout reactive ball roll like urethane or low flare lay

Post by EricHartwell » July 14th, 2019, 1:05 am

KYBOB wrote:EricHartwell....would like your input for:

1) layout for "reactive to roll like urethane"


2) low flare layout (whats the purpose/use for this layout?)

Need suggestions for ball from the current Radical lineup and what surfaces to use on each layout

Thanks
1) I am not from the camp that believes reactive can roll like urethane. If you want a urethane reaction I say get a urethane ball.

2) The low flare layouts flare less creating more length and smoother slower reaction to friction.
Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand

KYBOB
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Posts: 123
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Positive Axis Point: 4" Left - 1"^
Speed: 18-19 (off hand)
Rev Rate: 275
Axis Tilt: 23*
Axis Rotation: 50+-
Preferred Company: Morich, Radical
Location: Nicholasville, KY

Re: layout reactive ball roll like urethane or low flare lay

Post by KYBOB » July 14th, 2019, 2:54 am

Thanks Eric!
KyBOB
________________________________

STATS:

LH
PAP = 4"< x 1"^
Speed = 18-19 off hand
Rev Rate = 250-275
AR = 45*-50*
AT = 23*

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MegaMav
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Re: layout reactive ball roll like urethane or low flare lay

Post by MegaMav » July 14th, 2019, 1:14 pm

EricHartwell wrote: 1) I am not from the camp that believes reactive can roll like urethane.

I am. I'll give you what you want Bob.
With your tilt and speed we need to go to a strong asym cover and core to do it.
Katana Dragon: 60 x 3 x 50
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EricHartwell
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Re: layout reactive ball roll like urethane or low flare lay

Post by EricHartwell » July 14th, 2019, 8:48 pm

MegaMav wrote:

I am. I'll give you what you want Bob.
With your tilt and speed we need to go to a strong asym cover and core to do it.
Katana Dragon: 60 x 3 x 50
Thought you might have some thoughts on this one especially because of the Radical request.

Trying to wrap my head around the thought process with the recommendation.
60-3-50 is a layout I really like. I find it to be a Control layout for My specs. I can miss with higher tilt and still get good roll. I attribute that to keeping the surface dull.

I try to drill urethane to act like more like reactive making the core rev late in the ball motion. Using the core to aide in the roll.
80-3-30 deep thumb on a urethane with more than .040 total differential.

With that said, is the 3" pin to PAP on the Katana Dragon to reduce the influence of the core in the equation for the higher tilt bowler?
Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand

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MegaMav
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Re: layout reactive ball roll like urethane or low flare lay

Post by MegaMav » July 14th, 2019, 8:55 pm

EricHartwell wrote:
With that said, is the 3" pin to PAP on the Katana Dragon to reduce the influence of the core in the equation for the higher tilt bowler?
Speed dominant with tilt and I question the rotation to be too low.
Cant go too short on Pin to PAP or the ball wont rev late to hit.
Should be smooth and I havent seen a Dragon backend big yet.
Good candidate for this request.
“When you prepare for everything, you’re ready for anything.” - Bill Walsh

KYBOB
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Positive Axis Point: 4" Left - 1"^
Speed: 18-19 (off hand)
Rev Rate: 275
Axis Tilt: 23*
Axis Rotation: 50+-
Preferred Company: Morich, Radical
Location: Nicholasville, KY

Re: layout reactive ball roll like urethane or low flare lay

Post by KYBOB » July 15th, 2019, 5:08 am

MegaMav ...... As Eric said, I too thought you might respond.

Why do you question the rotation? Just curious is all. It was provided/analyzed by MattInTheHat.

any surface recommendation to start?

P.S. I found the DRAGON to be an oil soaker and HAVE TO de-oil every 3-4 games. Have you experienced that?
KyBOB
________________________________

STATS:

LH
PAP = 4"< x 1"^
Speed = 18-19 off hand
Rev Rate = 250-275
AR = 45*-50*
AT = 23*

KYBOB
Member
Member
Posts: 123
Joined: January 26th, 2010, 3:31 am
THS Average: 214
Positive Axis Point: 4" Left - 1"^
Speed: 18-19 (off hand)
Rev Rate: 275
Axis Tilt: 23*
Axis Rotation: 50+-
Preferred Company: Morich, Radical
Location: Nicholasville, KY

Re: layout reactive ball roll like urethane or low flare lay

Post by KYBOB » July 15th, 2019, 5:13 am

So..... neither of you recommend a low flare layout for me? I did find in another post that Eric doesn't recommend it for someone with my specs. What about you MegaMav?
KyBOB
________________________________

STATS:

LH
PAP = 4"< x 1"^
Speed = 18-19 off hand
Rev Rate = 250-275
AR = 45*-50*
AT = 23*

User avatar
MegaMav
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Positive Axis Point: 4 15/16 Over 3/8 Up
Speed: 15.25 MPH - Camera
Rev Rate: 350
Axis Tilt: 14
Axis Rotation: 40
Heavy Oil Ball: Radical - The Closer
Medium Oil Ball: Brunswck - Method Solid
Light Oil Ball: DV8 - Poison Pearl
Preferred Company: Radical Bowling Technologies
Location: Malta, NY

Re: layout reactive ball roll like urethane or low flare lay

Post by MegaMav » July 15th, 2019, 11:20 am

KYBOB wrote:MegaMav ...... As Eric said, I too thought you might respond.

Why do you question the rotation? Just curious is all. It was provided/analyzed by MattInTheHat.

any surface recommendation to start?

P.S. I found the DRAGON to be an oil soaker and HAVE TO de-oil every 3-4 games. Have you experienced that?
Its unusual for that much tilt to not have at least 60* rotation.
It must be from video, there may be an angle issue with the overlay.
MattInTheHat hasnt been around for years now, when was the last time you had your specs HAND measured?

3-4 games to deoil isnt necessary, every 30-40 is probably fine.
Warming and cooling a ball too many times may cause it to crack.

I do not recommend low flare because of your speed dominance, the layout I gave is as close as I will go.
Its more medium flare.
“When you prepare for everything, you’re ready for anything.” - Bill Walsh

KYBOB
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Posts: 123
Joined: January 26th, 2010, 3:31 am
THS Average: 214
Positive Axis Point: 4" Left - 1"^
Speed: 18-19 (off hand)
Rev Rate: 275
Axis Tilt: 23*
Axis Rotation: 50+-
Preferred Company: Morich, Radical
Location: Nicholasville, KY

Re: layout reactive ball roll like urethane or low flare lay

Post by KYBOB » July 28th, 2019, 7:49 am

MegaMav wrote:
Its unusual for that much tilt to not have at least 60* rotation. It increases as I move right. probably into that 60* range.
It must be from video, there may be an angle issue with the overlay.
MattInTheHat hasnt been around for years now, when was the last time you had your specs HAND measured? about a year or so

3-4 games to deoil isnt necessary, every 30-40 is probably fine. not the one I've got. Starts loosing reaction early in the 4th game. (tournament play....moving pairs each game)
Warming and cooling a ball too many times may cause it to crack. it'll just have to crack....LOL

I do not recommend low flare because of your speed dominance, the layout I gave is as close as I will go.
Its more medium flare.
Last edited by KYBOB on July 28th, 2019, 8:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
KyBOB
________________________________

STATS:

LH
PAP = 4"< x 1"^
Speed = 18-19 off hand
Rev Rate = 250-275
AR = 45*-50*
AT = 23*

KYBOB
Member
Member
Posts: 123
Joined: January 26th, 2010, 3:31 am
THS Average: 214
Positive Axis Point: 4" Left - 1"^
Speed: 18-19 (off hand)
Rev Rate: 275
Axis Tilt: 23*
Axis Rotation: 50+-
Preferred Company: Morich, Radical
Location: Nicholasville, KY

Re: layout reactive ball roll like urethane or low flare lay

Post by KYBOB » July 28th, 2019, 7:59 am

MegaMav wrote:

I am. I'll give you what you want Bob.
With your tilt and speed we need to go to a strong asym cover and core to do it.
Katana Dragon: 60 x 3 x 50
What's your thought on using this layout on the Ludicrous Solid in place of the Dragon?

Nevermind.......
MegaMav wrote: Speed dominant with tilt and I question the rotation to be too low.
Cant go too short on Pin to PAP or the ball wont rev late to hit.
Should be smooth and I havent seen a Dragon backend big yet.
--->Good candidate for this request.<--- just saw this
KyBOB
________________________________

STATS:

LH
PAP = 4"< x 1"^
Speed = 18-19 off hand
Rev Rate = 250-275
AR = 45*-50*
AT = 23*

KYBOB
Member
Member
Posts: 123
Joined: January 26th, 2010, 3:31 am
THS Average: 214
Positive Axis Point: 4" Left - 1"^
Speed: 18-19 (off hand)
Rev Rate: 275
Axis Tilt: 23*
Axis Rotation: 50+-
Preferred Company: Morich, Radical
Location: Nicholasville, KY

Re: layout reactive ball roll like urethane or low flare lay

Post by KYBOB » July 31st, 2019, 6:32 pm

Nevermind my previous post about the Ludicrous Solid.......

MegaMav wrote:
Speed dominant with tilt and I question the rotation to be too low.
Cant go too short on Pin to PAP or the ball wont rev late to hit.
Should be smooth and I havent seen a Dragon backend big yet.
--->Good candidate for this request.<--- just saw this
KyBOB
________________________________

STATS:

LH
PAP = 4"< x 1"^
Speed = 18-19 off hand
Rev Rate = 250-275
AR = 45*-50*
AT = 23*

KYBOB
Member
Member
Posts: 123
Joined: January 26th, 2010, 3:31 am
THS Average: 214
Positive Axis Point: 4" Left - 1"^
Speed: 18-19 (off hand)
Rev Rate: 275
Axis Tilt: 23*
Axis Rotation: 50+-
Preferred Company: Morich, Radical
Location: Nicholasville, KY

Re: layout reactive ball roll like urethane or low flare lay

Post by KYBOB » August 18th, 2019, 2:55 am

UPDATE......lingering injury has had me sidelined for the past 2 weeks or so. Maybe get to bowl again in the next week or so BUT will not be at 100%. Most likely gonna have to change delivery temporarily just to be able to bowl.....we'll see.
KyBOB
________________________________

STATS:

LH
PAP = 4"< x 1"^
Speed = 18-19 off hand
Rev Rate = 250-275
AR = 45*-50*
AT = 23*

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