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 Post subject: Ball layout suggestions
 Posted: Mon May 27, 2019 6:47 pm Post Number: #1 Post
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I thought I already posted my question but I don't see it. Perhaps as a new member it must go through a clearing process. Anyway I'll repeat my question(s).

Im looking for suggestions on dual angle layouts for a moderate to heavy oil THS and for later games with carrydown.

Specs:
Right handed
Speed at foul line 17mph
Rev rate: 340 rpm
Initial Axis rotation: 75 degrees
Initial Axis tilt: 30 degrees
Bowl on Synthetic lanes
39' THS moderate to heavy oil
Balanced or slightly speed dominate

I appreciate your feedback,
Tom


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 Post subject: Re: Ball layout suggestions
 Posted: Mon May 27, 2019 9:20 pm Post Number: #2 Post
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Welcome to BowlingChat

You are actually slightly rev dominant until you factor in your tilt and rotation.
Higher tilt and rotation pushes the reaction further down lane much like speed dominance will do.

Sweetspot 85* Total, 1:2 Ratio

Asymmetrical layouts
Totally Strong .................... 25-5.5-40
Midlane ............................ 20-5-45
Benchmark ........................ 30-4.5-55
Long and Strong ................ 50-4.5-55
Control ............................. 30-4-70

Symmetrical Layouts
Benchmark ....................... xx-3.5-50
Control ............................ xx-4.5-70

This is a set of layouts for a Basic arsenal. Ball choice needs to be considered when applying them.
What balls are you thinking about?

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Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand


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 Post subject: Re: Ball layout suggestions
 Posted: Mon May 27, 2019 9:36 pm Post Number: #3 Post
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Was thinking of hammer black widow legend. I thought the hybrid cover would even out my high tilt and rotation but I haven't done a lot of research yet.


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 Post subject: Re: Ball layout suggestions
 Posted: Mon May 27, 2019 9:45 pm Post Number: #4 Post
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Also, how do you adjust the numbers if the layout takes only part of the pin?

I found 37, 4, 56 would fall right on the pin but adjustments would frequently only take part.


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 Post subject: Re: Ball layout suggestions
 Posted: Tue May 28, 2019 1:01 am Post Number: #5 Post
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tcr wrote:
Also, how do you adjust the numbers if the layout takes only part of the pin?

I found 37, 4, 56 would fall right on the pin but adjustments would frequently only take part.

Adjust the VAL angle and pin to PAP length to put the pin all the way into the finger hole.

What is your PAP measurement?
Knowing that I can make suggestions accordingly, whether to drill out the pin completely or adjust it away from the finger hole.

I would recommend the long and strong layout 50-4.5-55 for the Black Widow Legend.

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Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand


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 Post subject: Re: Ball layout suggestions
 Posted: Tue May 28, 2019 1:32 am Post Number: #6 Post
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Pap 4 5/8 over 1 up.
Did u like the hammer legend ball for my situation or have other ideas?


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 Post subject: Re: Ball layout suggestions
 Posted: Tue May 28, 2019 2:41 am Post Number: #7 Post
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I like the Widows and have drilled many a Hammer with the gasmask core. It is very versatile core.
I try to stay away from making ball recommendations. I do not sell bowling balls nor am I on anybodies staff, and my running joke, I don't know your favorite color. For many people color is one of the most important ball characteristics.

I see now that layouts in your sweetspot are affected by the pin location being close to finger hole edges

My recommendation for the long and strong puts the pin close to the bridge.
I would modify my recommendation to 50-5-60, drilling the pin out with the middle finger.

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Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand


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 Post subject: Re: Ball layout suggestions
 Posted: Tue May 28, 2019 11:05 am Post Number: #8 Post
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Thanks Eric,
I dont drill but I wanted to know possibilities before I have another ball punched. Often you get what they like or their educated GUESS on what works.
Anyway, which do you think is more important for me, a higher pin to pap distance or a higher val angle because I was able to layout for the pin in the ring finger but the distance was 4 inches. Doesnt the angle sum of 110 push my limit for getting the ball into a roll?


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 Post subject: Re: Ball layout suggestions
 Posted: Tue May 28, 2019 11:23 am Post Number: #9 Post
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Sorry for missing this in the last post. Of all the layouts my current stuff does the long and strong ok. Will tweak replacements to your suggestion for that shot but I definitely need a ball for oil and carrydown. Could you give a benchmark layout adjusted to avoid the partial pin drilling?


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 Post subject: Re: Ball layout suggestions
 Posted: Wed May 29, 2019 1:44 am Post Number: #10 Post
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tcr wrote:
Thanks Eric,
I dont drill but I wanted to know possibilities before I have another ball punched. Often you get what they like or their educated GUESS on what works.
Anyway, which do you think is more important for me, a higher pin to pap distance or a higher val angle because I was able to layout for the pin in the ring finger but the distance was 4 inches. Doesnt the angle sum of 110 push my limit for getting the ball into a roll?

tcr wrote:
Sorry for missing this in the last post. Of all the layouts my current stuff does the long and strong ok. Will tweak replacements to your suggestion for that shot but I definitely need a ball for oil and carrydown. Could you give a benchmark layout adjusted to avoid the partial pin drilling?

The angle sum of 110 extends your basic layout range but is definitely usable for high friction conditions.
The 4" pin to PAP for you is going to equate to more total hook and later roll. For high friction conditions where you find yourself deep inside swinging the lane, it is an option.

I would recommend the pin in the middle finger with a 5" pin to PAP. 30-5-60. The slightly longer pin to PAP fits your range well. Pushing the layout slightly stronger.

Use a dull surface to dig through the fresh oily conditions. The dull surface will also help keep traction through the carrydown. Are you dealing with Urethane players dragging the oil to the backends?

40-4.5-40 keeps the pin above the ring finger and is another option for an adjusted Benchmark to keep the pin away from finger holes. Use surface to dial in the skid length. This recommendation would be for slightly longer oil patterns 41-42 foot.

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Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand


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 Post subject: Re: Ball layout suggestions
 Posted: Wed May 29, 2019 12:39 pm Post Number: #11 Post
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Thanks for all the numbers eric.
I just asked a kid last night about drilling one of the layouts with the pin in the ring finger...said he wont do those.
Regarding lane surface, I believe the synthetic panels are two types with a harder surface on the back. Dont know for sure. In this house there are times when everyone leaves ringing 10s, even the very best who succeed on sport shots.


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 Post subject: Re: Ball layout suggestions
 Posted: Wed May 29, 2019 4:39 pm Post Number: #12 Post
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Get a new PSO

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Stacy


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 Post subject: Re: Ball layout suggestions
 Posted: Wed May 29, 2019 5:43 pm Post Number: #13 Post
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Yes the thought did occur to me.


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