Arsenal suggestions

Which layout is right for me?

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44boyd
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Re: Arsenal suggestions

Post by 44boyd » April 30th, 2019, 6:21 pm

When you move in, are you bringing the breakpoint in too? Do you have the ability to increase speed?
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Mongo
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Positive Axis Point: 4 1/2" over, 1 1/2" up
Speed: 18 MPH
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Re: Arsenal suggestions

Post by Mongo » April 30th, 2019, 8:38 pm

44boyd wrote:When you move in, are you bringing the breakpoint in too? Do you have the ability to increase speed?
I usually parallel to keep angles fairly tight.

I've played with ball speed, too. The problem there is that they put a ton of oil out to fight the hooking mids and there's a threshhold where the ball either reads quick or hydroplanes. I'm also decent at changing my tilt (i.e. throwing the spinbiscuit) My main issue is that the adjustment is never the same.

For a house shot, it gives me headaches. That's why I'm trying to beat it with equipment.

I'm fairly versatile, but the transitions in this place make no sense. I guess right about 50% of the time.
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JMerrell wrote:Mongo,
We need to work on getting that teddy bear body of yours more open throughout the approach.

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Positive Axis Point: 4 1/2" over, 1 1/2" up
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Re: Arsenal suggestions

Post by Mongo » May 3rd, 2019, 1:02 am

EricHartwell wrote: What is your PAP today?
Knowing PAP I can suggest options of drilling gripping holes deeper for tuning purposes.

Sweetspot 95* Totals, 2.25:1 Ratio
Asymmetrical layouts
Totally Strong ................. 55-4-20
Midlane ......................... 45-3.5-30
Benchmark ..................... 65-3.5-30
Long and Strong ............. 85-3.5-30
Skid Snap ...................... 80-5-35
Control .......................... 65-3-50 for side to side control, large smooth arc, more hook
Control .......................... 65-5-50 for front to back control, straighter play, less hook
Hook Set ....................... 50-5.5-30
low flare ........................ 90-2-30

Symmetrical layouts
Benchmark ................... xx-4.25-35
Control ........................ xx-4.25-60 pin in the ring finger
low flare ...................... xx-5-35
low flare/Control .......... xx-5-60 pin in the middle finger

I've been revisiting you recommendations and had a couple of comments/thoughts/questions
Skid snap .................... xx-3-35
I can tell you from personal experience 3 x 35 is the exact opposite of skid/snap for me. This is a very slow downlane layout for me. I need it in my bag, but not for a big backend reaction.

Which is a question I've got for sport shots/less taper. One of my huge struggles is having balls that a slower downlane. I prefer to play more direct, but when you are pushing 400 RPM and have a decent amount of axis rotation, that makes things a bit challenging. I'd love a couple of specific suggestions (ball and layout) to help me out in these situations.

Are lower sums the way to go or should I go with low drill angle/higher VAL for a smoother look? The sums are higher, but the high flare/slow response helps somewhat. Another option is a short pin to PAP (=< 2").

I've got USBC and all the Vegas stuff coming up and struggled at team and the BTM because everything I had went sideways out of the pattern.

I do have a Dragon at 40 x 4 x 45 and it is super smooth, but it may be a bit much for the volume/pattern. Might play in D/S and the BJ, but on the stuff that hooks, not so much.

I realize this is a specific request, but it's a big hole in my bag.

Thanks.
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JMerrell wrote:Mongo,
We need to work on getting that teddy bear body of yours more open throughout the approach.

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Re: Arsenal suggestions

Post by elgavachon » May 3rd, 2019, 10:35 am

7* of Tilt with anywhere close to 80* rotation is what Mo called PDW territory. He always started off on low tilt by saying "another low tilt". add that to high rotation, and you are hard to drill for.

Here is the chart from the "Ratio Guide" which was specially added there for just those specs: http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/images ... _chart.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Using the chart, I would benchmark you somewhere between (1.7:1 and 1.5:1; However, since Mo lowers ratios even more for left handers, you would be 1.5:1 (when using that much rotation) . The problem with drilling for those specs is that with 7* of tilt, we are trying to retain it; however, with 80* of rotation, we are trying to burn off rotation gradually to avoid to much over under and too much skid-snap. Very speed sensitive. I would call that a kind of hit and miss. Looking at your specs on paper, you look almost matched, but I have bowled with you and with the tilt and rotation, you appear to have a ton of revs. Giving you layouts is almost trial and error. I would take a few balls that you don't like and experiment before drilling new stuff. Short pins Asymmetrical will retain tilt (and rotation which you don't need). I would try some layouts you don't have with lower ratios and short pins. Try like 70* 2 45* or 60* 2 40* just for an experiment (asymmetrical). Remember too that low PSA numbers (.012-.014) will move toward the thumb hole (without balance holes) and very low numbers (like .008) should be drilled symmetrical and would not work for this experiment.

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Positive Axis Point: 4 1/2" over, 1 1/2" up
Speed: 18 MPH
Rev Rate: 375
Axis Tilt: 12
Axis Rotation: 80
Preferred Company: DV8/Radical

Re: Arsenal suggestions

Post by Mongo » May 3rd, 2019, 2:58 pm

elgavachon wrote:7* of Tilt with anywhere close to 80* rotation is what Mo called PDW territory. He always started off on low tilt by saying "another low tilt". add that to high rotation, and you are hard to drill for.

Here is the chart from the "Ratio Guide" which was specially added there for just those specs: http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/images ... _chart.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Using the chart, I would benchmark you somewhere between (1.7:1 and 1.5:1; However, since Mo lowers ratios even more for left handers, you would be 1.5:1 (when using that much rotation) . The problem with drilling for those specs is that with 7* of tilt, we are trying to retain it; however, with 80* of rotation, we are trying to burn off rotation gradually to avoid to much over under and too much skid-snap. Very speed sensitive. I would call that a kind of hit and miss. Looking at your specs on paper, you look almost matched, but I have bowled with you and with the tilt and rotation, you appear to have a ton of revs. Giving you layouts is almost trial and error. I would take a few balls that you don't like and experiment before drilling new stuff. Short pins Asymmetrical will retain tilt (and rotation which you don't need). I would try some layouts you don't have with lower ratios and short pins. Try like 70* 2 45* or 60* 2 40* just for an experiment (asymmetrical). Remember too that low PSA numbers (.012-.014) will move toward the thumb hole (without balance holes) and very low numbers (like .008) should be drilled symmetrical and would not work for this experiment.
I've actually lowered my rotation to around 55, so it's not as drastic as it used to be. Of course, by lowering my rotation some, it's a little tougher to open up the lane, but enough on sharper oil tapers that it is tough to blend out. Granted, 55 is still plenty, but it's not 80.

I totally agree with the trial and error. I took my Bronze class with Jordan Vanover (Brunswick) and one thing he stuck with me was "You can drill 30 balls and end up with 5-6 you like and 1-2 you love". I think it's safe to say that applies to layouts, as well. Luckily, I'm pretty good at selling the stuff I don't like and I'm pretty good at eBay.

I appreciate all of the input. I'll keep drilling away. :)
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JMerrell wrote:Mongo,
We need to work on getting that teddy bear body of yours more open throughout the approach.

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