Layout advice needed

Which layout is right for me?

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44boyd
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Re: Layout advice needed

Post by 44boyd » March 28th, 2019, 6:34 pm

When you target, do you target through a pin? Like draw a line 20 at lay down to 10 at arrows to the 10 pin. If you do, I’d try looking at the 6 pin and see what that does for reaction, could be that it’s so dry outside 10 that you need to straighten your angles to keep it in the oil longer. So go from 20-15-10 in the oil.
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Re: Layout advice needed

Post by boomer » April 1st, 2019, 10:43 pm

Hey Curious

Yeah - trying this during league play is not necessarily the way to go - do you get free practice games? We get two on Tuesday and on Wednesday so I can try things then. :) Not that I do as much as I should, but hey.

Slick outside? Is there good oil inside?

Conditions like you describe, which don't sound like a typical house shot, are why it's good to get comfortable with different shots. And I'm in NO way criticizing you or your shot. It's a process like anything else. Our shot changed a TON over the past few weeks and I'm really fighting to stay smooth where I have to bowl - we went from dry-dry-dry and I was swinging it, to wet-wet-wet and I'm rolling it down and in. NOT comfortably at all, but hey, that's why we play the game, right? :)

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Re: Layout advice needed

Post by 44boyd » April 2nd, 2019, 12:39 am

That’s not a bad idea to “see” the line. Our house shot vs the league shot is different, so it doesn’t necessarily translate over.
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Re: Layout advice needed

Post by CuriousBowler » April 3rd, 2019, 1:21 am

44boyd wrote:That’s not a bad idea to “see” the line. Our house shot vs the league shot is different, so it doesn’t necessarily translate over.
Well "our" league shot is supposedly a 41FT THS. This is just going off the info the guy who's doing the lanes, tell us. However I know they have adjusted the shot they're putting down, on these new lanes a couple times. I honestly feel the machine used to clean, and oil the lanes, is a bit inconsistent. It's a newer type machine. As its cordless, and they just input what they want the machine to put down, and for how many lanes to oil. It does its own thing after that, besides getting stuck from time to time, if it gets off track.

I just think maintenance on the machine itself isn't kept up the best, and with that, the shot each week can be sometimes rather wet, or like last week, it was very dry. I will say last week, since the newer lanes were installed, it was the driest I have bowled on during league. There has been one time I practiced on the new lanes, and they were super dry, I was able to throw my plastic ball outside, and it hooked, and struck pretty well. That day I literally bowled one game, and left. As I was trying to practice with certain ball's that day, but the lanes were beyond playable, even for "just practicing".

As for practice games, my local center is a AMF bowling alley, so we do get two free games a week, per league you bowl in. I actually normally get to the alley a bit early on Wednesday's before league, and throw two practice games. I like doing it to get loosen up a bit, before league. I plan to drop both my Pink, and Turmoil ball to a lower grit surface, and see how they handle tomorrow before league. Then I will try them in warmups before league, to see how they're handling. As I will bring a 3000-4000 pad, just in case I need it.

As last week the high surface, plus polish, hurt me a lot. As the lanes were to dry down the lane, and so when the ball did get to the breakpoint, both balls acted crazy off the spot. So I plan to better prepare myself this week, and pay more attention during "warmup" before league. To see how my balls are handling at a lower surface. If they seem to act as if they're burning up to early, and the lanes seem to be playing a bit more slick down lane. I will bring them up to 3000 or 4000 grit, to conserve a bit more energy down lane.

Last week, during warmup before league. The lanes were playing more on the dry side, and I honestly should of hit both balls with a lower surface. Moved more inside into the oil, used the front part of the lane to burn off some of the energy, and likely tamed the reaction I was getting from both balls, down the lane. As last week, I don't think burning off some of the ball's energy in the front part of the lane, would of been a bad thing. I don't think carry would of been a issue at all.

One last thing guys. I will likely post again after league this week. However my posting might fall off for a little while. As I continue to baby my bad knee, and so there's a good chance. The month of April might be of me only bowling league, and no weekend practice session. So in regards to getting my bowling specs done, that might have to hold off for another month. Hell I was planning to buy them couple tools I mentioned in this thread, at the beginning of this month. I think I will hold off spending money on them tool's, until my knee gets better, and I can actually practice again regularly.

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Re: Layout advice needed

Post by boomer » April 3rd, 2019, 4:14 pm

Definitely take care of your knee. I need a new one on my left (slide) and will be talking to a knee replacement specialist after I go to Nats. (timing, LOL) - been on Cortisone injections for 4 years. Sucks.

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Re: Layout advice needed

Post by CuriousBowler » April 4th, 2019, 2:43 am

Yeah I have been resting it as much as I can. I have been keeping a compression sleeve on it when bowling on wednesday nights. To help make the pain be tolerable. I recently been icing it some when I can as well. I actually iced it as soon as I got home tonight. We got done a little early tonight.

Anyways onto the bowling. I ended up keeping the lower surface grit on both balls going into league. As the lanes didn't seem to bad in warmups. First game managed a 203, however second half of the game, things started getting tricky. I tried adjusting a bit, pushed thru the first game. Second game I started while still trying to make adjustments. However... That's when things become to much over/under down the lane.

So I think around the 5th frame again, I switched to my urethane ball, and moved far right. I wasn't able to get lined up as fast, ended with a 173, honestly should of been a 194. But my 9th frame, I hit the pocket solid, left a damn 8 pin. I had strikes in 7-8th frames, and struck out in the 10th frame. But that one bad carry in the 9th killed that game from being decent.

Third game I stayed with the urethane, I think I might of even bumped 1-2 more boards right, instead of left. I started the first 6 frames, with like 5 strikes, and one spare. However my 7th, and 9th frame on the left lane killed me in terms of my mental game. As I threw two good balls left two wrap 10 pins. So my 8th, and 10th frame, I lost a bit of focus, threw two bad balls. Converted my 8th frame, but in my 10th frame, I left a 3-6-10. Threw the ball a bit left off my hand, chopping the 3 off the 6-10. Ended with a 210. Should of been a chance at 240+ game, but 7-9th frame killed me from keeping multiple strikes going.

Overall not a bad night, however could of been better. As for my Pink, and Turmoil ball, I think next week I might try 3000 grit on them both. As tonight, towards the end of game one, and start of game two. The reaction I got was to over/under. I felt like I had to be perfect. I would feel like I threw a good ball, and it would hook a bit to much. Getting the ball a little bit farther right down lane, never would get back, leaving washout type stuff. With the old lanes, the penalty for getting the ball a little more right down lane, would more often then not, resulted in the ball hooking like crazy from hitting more dry outside. Not the case with the new lanes currently.

Towards the end of the night, I was talking with one of the guys on the other team, which I'm friendly with. He mentioned to me the main guy who runs the oil machine. He doesn't like when he's doing it. As he mentioned, the guy likes messing with what he's putting out each week. Honestly after I thought about this more, it does make more sense to me. As for a THS, these lanes play so different, one week to the next. There's a second guy who runs the machine from time to time, and the guy I was chatting with, said he liked when he did it more. Which I mentioned that guy doesn't come off as the smartest, and I have seen it multiple times, ask the main guy what to enter for the machine to put down. With that, he feels the main guy keeps it simple with the other guy, and so when the other guy is running the machine, the lanes play more consistent.

If all of this is indeed true, that's not good from the main lane guy. As our league bowl's expecting it to be the same THS each week. If he's modifying it whenever he feels like it, that would explain why so many people bitch about it, week to week. I know things will change due to other factors as well. But the way these lanes do play week to week, can be very different at times, and not feel anything close to how a THS should play. I wouldn't mind if our league played on different types of patterns thru out the season. However if that's the case, everyone should be made aware of that. I'm in no way blaming the person running our league. I just think it's all around bad, if the main lane guy, is changing things as he damn well pleases.

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Re: Layout advice needed

Post by boomer » April 4th, 2019, 3:56 pm

You might think about having the two set to different finishes. See which one's low-grit reaction you like best and leave that one there, and see if you like the high-grit reaction from the other, leave it there. This gives you the nice shapes you want, but gives you flex for when your lane-person leaves it dry-ish or wet-ish or one for early and then late. You have options. If they're the same, since the cover is the primary "reactor", then you have two balls that react similarly - they just may have a bit of a different end "shape".

Hope that made sense. . . I have one at 600, one at 2000, and one at 2000 polished. I have quite a bit of flexibility with this.

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Re: Layout advice needed

Post by CuriousBowler » April 5th, 2019, 4:26 pm

Hey boomer, I was already thinking of this. As I did have both balls this past week at lower grit surfaces. I'm thinking of bringing the Pink ball up to 2000 grit, with the Turmoil at 3000-4000 grit. I want to try to stay away from polish for now. As I tried that the first week, and didn't really care for the results I was getting.

So as of right now, this week I will have my Pink ball at 2000 grit, Turmoil 3000-4000 grit, leaning more 3000 then 4000 on it. Plus I still have my urethane ball. Which is likely 5000+, as I have it polished. Pretty sure factory it was like 2000, or so grit. However with the pin so close to my PAP, it was a total marsh mellow hitting the pins at a lower grit. With the higher polished surface, I am able to get the ball farther down the lane, and carry the 10 pin more consistently.

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Re: Layout advice needed

Post by 44boyd » April 6th, 2019, 1:02 pm

This might be something to think about

[youtube][/youtube]
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Re: Layout advice needed

Post by CuriousBowler » April 6th, 2019, 5:39 pm

44boyd,

I actually ran across that video not to long ago. I actually kept that in mind. Currently I feel my Pink ball is a bit more aggressive down lane, which makes sense as it's a pearl ball. Reason I think I will hit it with a 2000 grit pad. See if I can blend its ball motion out a little. The Turmoil obviously seems stronger in the front part of the lane, but it is smoother down lane. So that's why I'm thinking of putting 3000 grit on it. So maybe it will allow me to stay a little more right with it.

Last week I had the Pink ball at 1000 grit, and Turmoil at 1500. Which wasn't good overall, as I had to move left pretty quick, and while doing that I was opening up my angles. Result was too much over/under reaction down the lane. When I moved more left I tried moving my down lane spot in some, but the ball would hook a bit to much. So I tried pushing the ball out a little more, and it would just act flat off the spot. Reason I switched to my urethane again last week.

I will continue to make adjustments each week, and try to find these two balls happy spot, and adjust off of that each week. Still with me adjusting my game, to take advantage of the way these balls are setup. I'm not willing to spend all night of league adjusting, when I never have a spot I feel comfortable with to begin with. I have been sticking with one of them for one, and a half games, these past two weeks. So yes I am continuing to work my game to these balls, but it is a process, and with my bad knee recently. I have had to cut practice out of my routine for now. So my process is a bit slower right now.

Anyways I appreciate all the comments, and I will continue to keep trying different things. I'm hoping this coming week, the surfaces I put on both of them, will end up close to what I want. As I have already tried both low, and higher grit surfaces. Hopefully this in between surface, is close. Because I'm at the point of just needing to leave the ball surface alone, and adjust around it. Which is my plan moving forward.

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Re: Layout advice needed

Post by CuriousBowler » May 9th, 2019, 3:24 pm

Well I know its been a little while, and I'm not one for excuses... However other things have come up, so getting my personal bowling specs, still haven't been done yet. With that said, over the last few weeks, with the weather starting to stay warmer. The lanes have started to play much dryer during league. Which I expected, especially the backend's are playing much drier during league.

I league bowl on wednesday's as some of you in this thread already know, and overall last night wasn't great for me. Yet I feel I will be in much better shape next week. Going into my third game last night, I pulled out a ball I haven't used in a long while, which is a Scandal Pearl. I have it drilled pin down, under the ring finger. Out of all my ball's last night, it played best for me.

However there's one issue I have with that ball, and I plan to get it fix soon. When I got this ball drilled, I decided to try without finger grips. Well the finger holes ended up being drilled to big, and so for my fingers to feel good in the ball. I have to go in past my first knuckle. Which isn't good for me, as when I put my fingers in that far, I feel like I might rip one off. So I have to play with my fingers being loose, and it causes me to miss my target inside, and leak it to far right at times. Overall inconsistent trying to throw this ball. However after throwing this ball l loved how it reacted down lane, it was still strong, but very controllable off the breakpoint. Which is kind of the point of pin down layout.

With all that said, next week I plan to give this ball to the PSO to fix the finger holes, and likely get him to fix a deep scratch that has been in the ball since the last time I use it. One of the lane machines caused that, and I'm pretty sure it's in my track as well. Once this ball is fixed, I think I will be throwing it a lot more. Yes I have to play a little bit more left then I want, yet I don't mind doing that, when I know how predictable the ball motion will be down the lane. Currently it's the only ball I own that is pin down.

As for my other ball's, last night I had a over/under reaction with my pin up above the ring finger balls. I would throw a ball I felt good about, for it to only not react, then have one react to much. I tried adjusting my feet, and target. Still never found a spot I felt comfortable with. I ended up pulling out my Tactic Control urethane ball. Result's were less then good for me, which is partly my fault. As I still had a 5000 grit surface on it. So it was shiny as hell. The issue.. Lanes are now playing much drier in the backend's. So I had to move inside a lot, to the point I didn't trust throwing urethane that far right, and expect it to carry well.

So my plan for next week, is to bring my urethane ball down to like 2000 grit. As I need it to read the lane much earlier, and hopefully tame the backend reaction down some. Because last night I tried standing in one spot, a bit more left then I normally stand with it, and it literally went brooklyn on me. Had me saying wow.. As I didn't expect it to move that much down the lane. As for my other(Pink, and Turmoil) pin up balls. I plan to drop them from there more shiny finishes as well. To see if I can balance them out a bit, with the backends playing like they are now.

Lastly I will admit when I started using the pin down ball in the last game, last night. I didn't know what to expect. However I will say for me at least last night, it blended the over/under reaction I was dealing with, with my pin up balls, very well. If only my fit was better, I feel my last game could of been a very good game for me. As one throw I leaked it out right to much, and it 4-9 split on me. On that throw I needed more speed, but I tried keeping everything slow, due to not being confident in my grip with the ball. Anyways it will likely be awhile again before I post, as I will try to get my specs done. Currently just been dealing with family stuff, and so this has taken a backseat for now. I will post again when I get things done, and I will say right now.. I will be adding a couple pin down balls to my arsenal, likely next ball I get drilled will be pin down aka large VAL angle. I would like to get that done close to September, when fall league starts back up.

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Re: Layout advice needed

Post by CuriousBowler » June 3rd, 2019, 12:02 pm

Hey Eric,

I hate to even ask you... as i know i haven't done my part, in regards to getting my bowling specs. Currently i have had very little time for bowling, besides the one night i league bowl. Trust me i wish i had all my specs at this point.

Anyways since the weather has gotten warmer. The lanes have started playing much drier, which i expected. With that almost all my balls are drilled pin up as you know. I have been struggling still with my pin up stuff. Either hooking to hard off the breakpoint, and when i move in, i struggle with over/under reaction.

I just had my scandal pearl finger holes plugged, and finger tip grips put in. As it was the only ball i had drilled with no finger tip grips. Overall holes were to big, causing me gripping issues, and with that, bad releases often. The reason i mention this. It's the only ball i have drilled pin down under my ring finger. When i have been able to throw this ball properly. I like its motion overall. However it's a stronger ball, which still requires me to move inside a good amount.

Currently i have a Motiv Thrill undrilled, planning to drill it soon. I know it's a higher RG, low diff ball. Which is what i want. Because my plan is to use this ball to play the outside part of the lane, playing down, and in.
I was thinking of going xx-5-70/75. Pretty much pin down below middle finger. With this being a ball made for dry lanes, i don't want to totally kill the ball with a super weak layout.

So i wanted to ask your opinion on this first. I honestly want to stay away from pin up. As i want to tame the ball from coming off the breakpoint hard. So i figured pin down, as i like the way my scandal acts at the breakpoint. Also knowing i plan to use it outside on the dry, with my slower ball speed. I feel the ball will still have plenty of time to get to the 1-3 pocket. The biggest thing for me is pin to pap distance. I'm a bit clueless on what to use. As i want to keep the ball's motion smooth overall. I know 3-4 inch range is max flare position, which is something i likely want to stay away from playing on dry part of the lane.

Anyhow Eric when you see this, and if you're willing, no hard feelings if not. Comment on what you think. I'm open to suggestion here. I would just like to use a pin down layout on this ball.

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Re: Layout advice needed

Post by 44boyd » June 3rd, 2019, 8:11 pm

MegaMav wrote:Get your release specs if you want targeted ball motion.
If your pro shop wont do it for you, go to another pro shop or use our resources here to get at least your tilt and PAP.

You can get tilt with a tailor's tape. Probably could do PAP as well.
Put in the effort to get the release specs and we'll help you out.
Otherwise, you'll be wasting your time with dialogue prefaced with "I dont have my release specs, but..."
I think this still applies, make the time.
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Re: Layout advice needed

Post by EricHartwell » June 3rd, 2019, 10:49 pm

CuriousBowler wrote:Currently i have a Motiv Thrill undrilled, planning to drill it soon. I know it's a higher RG, low diff ball. Which is what i want. Because my plan is to use this ball to play the outside part of the lane, playing down, and in.
I was thinking of going xx-5-70/75. Pretty much pin down below middle finger. With this being a ball made for dry lanes, i don't want to totally kill the ball with a super weak layout.
xx-5-70/75 will "totally kill the ball" in my opinion. It is just too weak a ball in both cover and core.
You will get next to zero flare and create carrydown. Especially if you use your PAP from a high flaring ball.
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Re: Layout advice needed

Post by CuriousBowler » June 4th, 2019, 1:23 am

Well Eric is there any pin down suggestions you have for this ball? I know I'm asking you this blindfolded. However I don't mind having to throw the ball up the 5 board, if needed. I honestly want to use this ball to play straighter up the outside dry part of the lane. What is important to me, is having a overall smooth ball motion, especially off the break point down lane.

I'm sure you already know this ball comes at 5500 polished. So I can always take the surface down some, if the ball was a bit lazy OOB, once drilled. I threw out the 70-75 VAL angle number, as I just want to keep the pin below the finger holes, a safe distance. If I can get away with around a 60, or so VAL angle with my PAP. I'm fine with that, I just don't want ball cracking to happen around my finger holes, due to the pin being to close. I have one of my older balls, the PSO drilled with the pin to close to my finger hole, and there's cracking around the finger hole.

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Re: Layout advice needed

Post by EricHartwell » June 4th, 2019, 2:24 am

You seem to have your mind made up to keep drilling balls without the due diligence and want some sort of approval.
Sorry I can't give that.
I've never seen you roll a ball.
It would be irresponsible of me to make a recommendation especially for a layout that is at an extreme like you want.
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