Sport Layout Ratio Question

Which layout is right for me?

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Mongo
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Re: Sport Layout Ratio Question

Post by Mongo » March 28th, 2019, 5:06 am

EricHartwell wrote: And you have a good Idea just don't take it too far like I tried to explain of you won't get the "hit"
*thumbs up*
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JMerrell wrote:Mongo,
We need to work on getting that teddy bear body of yours more open throughout the approach.

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russelldean
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Re: Sport Layout Ratio Question

Post by russelldean » March 28th, 2019, 6:34 am

EricHartwell wrote: What is your PAP measurement and what ball?

I am surmising that the fresh condition is what is giving you fits and once the pattern blends out and the midlane opens up you get comfortable, yes?
Pap is 4 7/8. Up 7/8. Black beauty. Fresh is fine through maybe game 1 until downlane motion disappears. I am about a 160 average bowler game 2. They get better middle of the block. Then black and white at the end.
Please click the Green Button, If i have been helpful..

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EricHartwell
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Re: Sport Layout Ratio Question

Post by EricHartwell » March 28th, 2019, 10:09 pm

russelldean wrote:
Pap is 4 7/8. Up 7/8. Black beauty. Fresh is fine through maybe game 1 until downlane motion disappears. I am about a 160 average bowler game 2. They get better middle of the block. Then black and white at the end.
Black Beauty? As in the Classic Rubber ball with a pancake core from the 70's.
Please tell me your using it for spares and that is what you are measuring your PAP from.
Eric Hartwell

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PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
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russelldean
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Re: Sport Layout Ratio Question

Post by russelldean » March 29th, 2019, 3:43 am

EricHartwell wrote: Black Beauty? As in the Classic Rubber ball with a pancake core from the 70's.
Please tell me your using it for spares and that is what you are measuring your PAP from.

Ha yes. Spare ball
Please click the Green Button, If i have been helpful..

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EricHartwell
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Re: Sport Layout Ratio Question

Post by EricHartwell » March 29th, 2019, 8:51 pm

russeldean, I still need to know what ball you are thinking of drilling.
It would also benefit me to know what you are currently rolling including layouts.

What I am thinking about is using the fingers like a P1 hole, drilling them deep to reduce the flare rather than a short pin to PAP on an Asymmetrical ball.
Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand

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Mongo
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Re: Sport Layout Ratio Question

Post by Mongo » April 10th, 2019, 11:08 pm

EricHartwell wrote: Your idea is extreme in a couple different ways. I feel the Totals are too high and Pin to PAP too short. With this layout I would expect you to need to sand the ball to 500 grit. Obviously you experienced lane conditions that you couldn't overcome last year. I have no doubt that your idea would work to keep you in the pocket playing straighter but I believe your carry will definitely suffer.

I would go with 125* totals at the most and 2.75:1 Ratio
low flare layout ................ 90-2-35

This layout is not really compensated for you being left handed. Normally the totals and Ratio would be a little bit lower.

I have a Tremendous and have experimented quite a bit with surface and ended up bringing it back to the factory 500/1500 surface. It played best for me with the out of the box surface. Disclaimer I do not have a low flare layout on it.
OK, so I put a 90 x 2 x 40 on the Tremendous and it rolls great. Flare is definitely less than what I remember having on my Guru, buuuuuuuuuuuuuut......still way too much downlane motion for what I'm looking for.

Essentially, I want a hook/set motion for sport patterns. My big struggle on sport patterns is ball motion that basically goes sideways out of the pattern. Given my speed/tilt/rotation combo, this happens a lot, especially on the left side because it never breaks down.
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JMerrell wrote:Mongo,
We need to work on getting that teddy bear body of yours more open throughout the approach.

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EricHartwell
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Re: Sport Layout Ratio Question

Post by EricHartwell » April 10th, 2019, 11:30 pm

Factory surface is 500/1500, very aggressive.
Try a surface adjustment. Start with 2000, roll it see how it acts. Still too much smooth it up some more with 4000.

Hook Set reaction is is quite different from low flare, almost opposite. Dull surface with much lower totals, Ratio and stronger pin to PAP position. 40-5-30
Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand

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Mongo
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Re: Sport Layout Ratio Question

Post by Mongo » April 10th, 2019, 11:50 pm

EricHartwell wrote:Factory surface is 500/1500, very aggressive.
Try a surface adjustment. Start with 2000, roll it see how it acts. Still too much smooth it up some more with 4000.

Hook Set reaction is is quite different from low flare, almost opposite. Dull surface with much lower totals, Ratio and stronger pin to PAP position. 40-5-30
I've got a Dragon at 40 x 4 x 40 and it almost fits the bill. I'd like a piece about 4-5 boards weaker to compliment

All that being said, I really like the overall look of the 2" pin on an asym. I may have to try that on something else. However, I would love to find a layout that basically does nothing, but still has some hit. The end goal is to be able to play more direct with a "A" release.
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JMerrell wrote:Mongo,
We need to work on getting that teddy bear body of yours more open throughout the approach.

44boyd
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Re: Sport Layout Ratio Question

Post by 44boyd » April 11th, 2019, 12:09 am

Is there a reason you’re not using or not wanting to use urethane? PB3 uses like 2 layouts on medium equipment that help him stay out, but he’s got a little more speed.
Stacy

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Mongo
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Re: Sport Layout Ratio Question

Post by Mongo » April 11th, 2019, 12:18 am

44boyd wrote:Is there a reason you’re not using or not wanting to use urethane? PB3 uses like 2 layouts on medium equipment that help him stay out, but he’s got a little more speed.
I prefer to not use equipment that is going to shred the fronts and push oil downlane.

It's a crutch that should have stayed in the 80's.
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JMerrell wrote:Mongo,
We need to work on getting that teddy bear body of yours more open throughout the approach.

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EricHartwell
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Re: Sport Layout Ratio Question

Post by EricHartwell » April 11th, 2019, 12:23 am

4" pin to PAP is for more side to side movement. 5" pin to PAP is for more forward rolling movement.
Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand

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Re: Sport Layout Ratio Question

Post by 44boyd » April 11th, 2019, 1:42 am

Mongo wrote:
I prefer to not use equipment that is going to shred the fronts and push oil downlane.

It's a crutch that should have stayed in the 80's.
I totally agree for a right hander, but as a lefty are you really creating that condition in one game on a pair?
Stacy

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Mongo
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Re: Sport Layout Ratio Question

Post by Mongo » April 11th, 2019, 2:26 am

44boyd wrote:
I totally agree for a right hander, but as a lefty are you really creating that condition in one game on a pair?
Every time I throw urethane, it looks great for maybe a game, then it just lays off downlane.
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JMerrell wrote:Mongo,
We need to work on getting that teddy bear body of yours more open throughout the approach.

44boyd
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Re: Sport Layout Ratio Question

Post by 44boyd » April 11th, 2019, 9:17 am

I’d look at medium level equipment since you’re not getting what you want out of the stronger covers.
Stacy

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Mongo
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Re: Sport Layout Ratio Question

Post by Mongo » April 11th, 2019, 11:51 pm

44boyd wrote:I’d look at medium level equipment since you’re not getting what you want out of the stronger covers.
I've got a Beyond Ridiculous on the bench now.
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JMerrell wrote:Mongo,
We need to work on getting that teddy bear body of yours more open throughout the approach.

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