Layout for Crux Prime for sport/USBC Open

Which layout is right for me?

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Flyer41
Member
Member
Posts: 4
Joined: December 28th, 2013, 6:55 am
THS Average: 224
Positive Axis Point: 5 11/16" x 1 1/16" Up
Speed: 19.5mph off hand
Rev Rate: 520
Axis Tilt: 9
Axis Rotation: 55
Preferred Company: Storm

Layout for Crux Prime for sport/USBC Open

Post by Flyer41 » January 30th, 2019, 2:50 pm

I'm looking to punch up a Prime with the intention of being for fresh out in Vegas this year. I know there isn't a pattern or anything but taking a guess that it will be medium/long and on the medium/heavy side. My biggest struggles the past few years have been game 1's of team and D/S

My specs are;
1 handed righty w/thumb
520rpm
19mph at foul line
55 degree rotation
9 degree tilt

My initial thoughts were something like 40 x 4.5 x 55. I'm more comfortable decreasing rotation and tilt than adding it when I need to, but unsure on how I should set up the angles to best take advantage of that.

Thanks

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EricHartwell
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Posts: 3592
Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
Speed: 16 off hand
Rev Rate: 330
Axis Tilt: 12
Axis Rotation: 45
Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous
Medium Oil Ball: Motiv Villain, Hammer Nail, Brunswick True Motion
Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer, Columbia Nitrous
Location: Michigan

Re: Layout for Crux Prime for sport/USBC Open

Post by EricHartwell » January 31st, 2019, 12:13 am

Flyer41 wrote:My specs are;
1 handed righty w/thumb
520rpm
19mph at foul line
55 degree rotation
9 degree tilt

My initial thoughts were something like 40 x 4.5 x 55. I'm more comfortable decreasing rotation and tilt than adding it when I need to, but unsure on how I should set up the angles to best take advantage of that.

Thanks
I always start by figuring out the Benchmark and work from there
Sweetspot 120* Totals 2.5:1 Ratio
Asymmetrical Layouts ...
Totally Strong ...... 75-4.5-25
Midlane ............... 65-4-35
Benchmark .......... 85-3-35
Control ................ 85-3-55
low flare .............. 90-2-30

A past recommendation for Nationals has been the low flare layout on a Strong Asym with surface.

Your Idea 40 x 4.5 x 55 (adjust to pin in the Ring finger if the pin is too close to the edge of the finger hole) would be for a longer oil sport condition. I think it would be a good setup to have available when you can't seem to get anything else to roll and carry. I had a ball set up similarly but will lose it to the no balance hole rule.
Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand

Flyer41
Member
Member
Posts: 4
Joined: December 28th, 2013, 6:55 am
THS Average: 224
Positive Axis Point: 5 11/16" x 1 1/16" Up
Speed: 19.5mph off hand
Rev Rate: 520
Axis Tilt: 9
Axis Rotation: 55
Preferred Company: Storm

Re: Layout for Crux Prime for sport/USBC Open

Post by Flyer41 » February 1st, 2019, 1:29 pm

EricHartwell wrote: I always start by figuring out the Benchmark and work from there
Sweetspot 120* Totals 2.5:1 Ratio
Asymmetrical Layouts ...
Totally Strong ...... 75-4.5-25
Midlane ............... 65-4-35
Benchmark .......... 85-3-35
Control ................ 85-3-55
low flare .............. 90-2-30

A past recommendation for Nationals has been the low flare layout on a Strong Asym with surface.

Your Idea 40 x 4.5 x 55 (adjust to pin in the Ring finger if the pin is too close to the edge of the finger hole) would be for a longer oil sport condition. I think it would be a good setup to have available when you can't seem to get anything else to roll and carry. I had a ball set up similarly but will lose it to the no balance hole rule.
Thank you Eric for the help.

One followup question, I've been working on getting my speed/revs more matched and getting my ball speed up a bit to 22-23 so I am more matched. When I get there that should bring my angle sweet spot down to 95*~100* and as long as my tilt/rotation doesn't change too much my ratio would be closer to 2:1 or 2.25:1, right? So would the layouts be like this then? Just trying to be a bit forward thinking with the adjustments I plan to make in my game.

Totally Strong ...... 60-4.5-20
Midlane ............... 50-4-30
Benchmark .......... 65-3-30
Control ................ 65-3-45
low flare .............. 75-2-25

For the other layout, should that just bring my VAL angle down a bit then to like 40 x 4.5 x 35?

I'm not quite sure on how to adjust the pin to PAP distances or if they need adjusted at all.

User avatar
EricHartwell
Trusted Source
Trusted Source
Posts: 3592
Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
Speed: 16 off hand
Rev Rate: 330
Axis Tilt: 12
Axis Rotation: 45
Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous
Medium Oil Ball: Motiv Villain, Hammer Nail, Brunswick True Motion
Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer, Columbia Nitrous
Location: Michigan

Re: Layout for Crux Prime for sport/USBC Open

Post by EricHartwell » February 1st, 2019, 10:42 pm

Flyer41 wrote:
Thank you Eric for the help.

One followup question, I've been working on getting my speed/revs more matched and getting my ball speed up a bit to 22-23 so I am more matched. When I get there that should bring my angle sweet spot down to 95*~100* and as long as my tilt/rotation doesn't change too much my ratio would be closer to 2:1 or 2.25:1, right? So would the layouts be like this then? Just trying to be a bit forward thinking with the adjustments I plan to make in my game.

Totally Strong ...... 60-4.5-20
Midlane ............... 50-4-30
Benchmark .......... 65-3-30
Control ................ 65-3-45
Long and Strong ..... 85-3-30
low flare .............. 75-2-25 85-2-30
The larger Drilling angle also helps to reduce the flare.


For the other layout, should that just bring my VAL angle down a bit then to like 40 x 4.5 x 35?

I'm not quite sure on how to adjust the pin to PAP distances or if they need adjusted at all.
Additions/corrections above in color
Getting your speed up to 21 mph and keeping your rev rate at 500 will get you into Matched.
If you manage to get your speed all the way up to 23 mph and keep all of your revs you will be slightly speed dominant. Loose revs getting to 23 and you will definitely be speed dominant.
Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand

Flyer41
Member
Member
Posts: 4
Joined: December 28th, 2013, 6:55 am
THS Average: 224
Positive Axis Point: 5 11/16" x 1 1/16" Up
Speed: 19.5mph off hand
Rev Rate: 520
Axis Tilt: 9
Axis Rotation: 55
Preferred Company: Storm

Re: Layout for Crux Prime for sport/USBC Open

Post by Flyer41 » February 4th, 2019, 1:20 pm

Is there a place to get the rev/speed chart above what the chart in the wiki has? The one I find there stops at 19+mph and 400+ rpm. Is there some sort of formula that I can put any numbers into to figure out?

Once I get into that matched range, the 40 x 4.5 x 55 layout would push down to being more ideal for medium/long-ish patterns if I'm understanding the adjustments right, so for a longer pattern I would need something like 30 x 5.5 x 30?

Thanks again for all your help.

User avatar
EricHartwell
Trusted Source
Trusted Source
Posts: 3592
Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
Speed: 16 off hand
Rev Rate: 330
Axis Tilt: 12
Axis Rotation: 45
Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous
Medium Oil Ball: Motiv Villain, Hammer Nail, Brunswick True Motion
Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer, Columbia Nitrous
Location: Michigan

Re: Layout for Crux Prime for sport/USBC Open

Post by EricHartwell » February 4th, 2019, 10:13 pm

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This works well for defining the Speed to Rev relationship.

30-5.5-30 is a bit extreme.

If you are set at working from Matched speed to revs then I suggest 30-5-45 for a long oil layout.
Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand

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