VAL angle question

Which layout is right for me?

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Lledsmarttam
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VAL angle question

Post by Lledsmarttam » January 11th, 2019, 5:02 pm

I'm not sure if this question is to vague, but wanted to get opinions on it.
Most of my equipment is drilled with val angles between 20-35 with no x hole. I find most of these balls to just be too snappy for the house shot conditions I bowl on. That being said would the suggestion be to increase these angles, or change pin to PAP? Equipment that is too snappy is in the 3 3/4" to 5 1/2" PTP on both symm and asymm.
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deanchamp
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Re: VAL angle question

Post by deanchamp » January 11th, 2019, 11:52 pm

You might want to try a control layout for the THS, 65 x 4” x 55 for an asymm ball or pin in ring finger for a symm ball.
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EricHartwell
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Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
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Re: VAL angle question

Post by EricHartwell » January 12th, 2019, 1:04 am

Lledsmarttam wrote:I'm not sure if this question is to vague, but wanted to get opinions on it.
Most of my equipment is drilled with val angles between 20-35 with no x hole. I find most of these balls to just be too snappy for the house shot conditions I bowl on. That being said would the suggestion be to increase these angles, or change pin to PAP? Equipment that is too snappy is in the 3 3/4" to 5 1/2" PTP on both symm and asymm.
It's a little vague.
I would want to know more specifically what ball, layout and surface prep.

I prefer Control layouts for the THS. These layouts are lower ratio with higher totals. The lower ratios produce larger VAL angles.

Your sweetspot is 100* Total and 1.75:1 Ratio,
Asymmetrical Benchmark ...........65-3.5-35
Control ................................... 65-3.5-55

I'm on the same page as deanchamp, but I have the pin to PAP shorter for a smoother reaction. Also a 4" pin to PAP will be very close to the edge of the ring finger. I would adjust away from the finger NOT in it for the Asym.
Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand

Lledsmarttam
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Posts: 136
Joined: August 8th, 2017, 1:40 am
THS Average: 198
Positive Axis Point: 5 1/16 by 3/4 up
Speed: 14-15 mph on monitor
Rev Rate: 325
Axis Tilt: 10
Axis Rotation: 70
Heavy Oil Ball: Optimus solid
Medium Oil Ball: Antidote, Zero Gravity
Light Oil Ball: Rave On,Pathogen
Location: Lake Geneva WI

Re: VAL angle question

Post by Lledsmarttam » January 13th, 2019, 12:11 am

EricHartwell wrote: It's a little vague.
I would want to know more specifically what ball, layout and surface prep.

I prefer Control layouts for the THS. These layouts are lower ratio with higher totals. The lower ratios produce larger VAL angles.

Your sweetspot is 100* Total and 1.75:1 Ratio,
Asymmetrical Benchmark ...........65-3.5-35
Control ................................... 65-3.5-55

I'm on the same page as deanchamp, but I have the pin to PAP shorter for a smoother reaction. Also a 4" pin to PAP will be very close to the edge of the ring finger. I would adjust away from the finger NOT in it for the Asym.
I have some balls that are 4 1/4"x55 pin in ring, all symm and these are usually what I'm throwing in league.
Pitch black @ 1000
Twist @ 3000
-Knowledge is power-
PAP-5 1/16 by 3/4 up
Speed-14-15mph on monitor
Rev-325rpm
Tilt-10*
Rotation-70*-90*

Lledsmarttam
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Posts: 136
Joined: August 8th, 2017, 1:40 am
THS Average: 198
Positive Axis Point: 5 1/16 by 3/4 up
Speed: 14-15 mph on monitor
Rev Rate: 325
Axis Tilt: 10
Axis Rotation: 70
Heavy Oil Ball: Optimus solid
Medium Oil Ball: Antidote, Zero Gravity
Light Oil Ball: Rave On,Pathogen
Location: Lake Geneva WI

Re: VAL angle question

Post by Lledsmarttam » January 15th, 2019, 3:49 pm

EricHartwell wrote: It's a little vague.
I would want to know more specifically what ball, layout and surface prep.

I prefer Control layouts for the THS. These layouts are lower ratio with higher totals. The lower ratios produce larger VAL angles.

Your sweetspot is 100* Total and 1.75:1 Ratio,
Asymmetrical Benchmark ...........65-3.5-35
Control ................................... 65-3.5-55

I'm on the same page as deanchamp, but I have the pin to PAP shorter for a smoother reaction. Also a 4" pin to PAP will be very close to the edge of the ring finger. I would adjust away from the finger NOT in it for the Asym.
Eric
Tenacity 55x5x35 OOB
Tremendous Pearl 70x3 3/4x20 OOB
Intel 3 3/4x20 OOB
Pyramid Curse 4x30 1000
Pyramid Curse 5.5x35 Polished
Pyramid Blood Moon Rising 60x5.5x35 Polished
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PAP-5 1/16 by 3/4 up
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EricHartwell
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Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
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Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous
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Re: VAL angle question

Post by EricHartwell » January 20th, 2019, 6:16 pm

Lledsmarttam wrote:Tenacity 55x5x35 OOB
Tremendous Pearl 70x3 3/4x20 OOB
Intel 3 3/4x20 OOB
Pyramid Curse 4x30 1000
Pyramid Curse 5.5x35 Polished
Pyramid Blood Moon Rising 60x5.5x35 Polished
Tenacity ................... drilled Totally Strong and will perform the best on longer conditions.

Tremendous Pearl ..... Skid snap type ball with a high ratio skid snap layout. I feel the layout over emphasizes the reaction making it a difficult ball to control. 75-3.5-35

Intel ........................ The hook zone in this layout is too short to effectively burn off your rotation and it burns tilt too quickly.
It looks like an an attempt to make it a skid snap reaction but the ball is about control. This one in my opinion should have a Control layout xx-4.25-55 pin in the ring finger.

Pyramid Curses.......... I like the 2 ball set up you have with them. 1000 grit is a bit aggressive of a surface for what I bowl on in leagues. I like to use a little less surface trying to preserve the condition a little bit. I would either keep these in the arsenal or if you are going to replace them a similar set up would serve you well.

Blood Moon Rising ......I see what you did with the as the 3rd ball in the group with the Curses.
I think the 5.5" pin to PAP affects your carry negatively, causing the ball to burn off what little tilt you have too quickly. I would not recommend a Pin to PAP longer than 5" on Asyms for you.
I would have gone 80-4.75-35. fwiw

This is how I would re-organize your arsenal from strongest to weakest...

Tenacity 55x5x35 OOB
Pyramid Curse 4x30 1000
Intel xx-4.25-55 pin in the ring finger OOB
Tremendous Pearl 75-3.5-35 OOB
Pyramid Curse 5.5x35 Polished
Pyramid Blood Moon Rising 80-4.75-35 Polished
Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand

Lledsmarttam
Member
Member
Posts: 136
Joined: August 8th, 2017, 1:40 am
THS Average: 198
Positive Axis Point: 5 1/16 by 3/4 up
Speed: 14-15 mph on monitor
Rev Rate: 325
Axis Tilt: 10
Axis Rotation: 70
Heavy Oil Ball: Optimus solid
Medium Oil Ball: Antidote, Zero Gravity
Light Oil Ball: Rave On,Pathogen
Location: Lake Geneva WI

Re: VAL angle question

Post by Lledsmarttam » January 21st, 2019, 8:09 pm

EricHartwell wrote: Tenacity ................... drilled Totally Strong and will perform the best on longer conditions.

Tremendous Pearl ..... Skid snap type ball with a high ratio skid snap layout. I feel the layout over emphasizes the reaction making it a difficult ball to control. 75-3.5-35

Intel ........................ The hook zone in this layout is too short to effectively burn off your rotation and it burns tilt too quickly.
It looks like an an attempt to make it a skid snap reaction but the ball is about control. This one in my opinion should have a Control layout xx-4.25-55 pin in the ring finger.

Pyramid Curses.......... I like the 2 ball set up you have with them. 1000 grit is a bit aggressive of a surface for what I bowl on in leagues. I like to use a little less surface trying to preserve the condition a little bit. I would either keep these in the arsenal or if you are going to replace them a similar set up would serve you well.

Blood Moon Rising ......I see what you did with the as the 3rd ball in the group with the Curses.
I think the 5.5" pin to PAP affects your carry negatively, causing the ball to burn off what little tilt you have too quickly. I would not recommend a Pin to PAP longer than 5" on Asyms for you.
I would have gone 80-4.75-35. fwiw

This is how I would re-organize your arsenal from strongest to weakest...

Tenacity 55x5x35 OOB
Pyramid Curse 4x30 1000
Intel xx-4.25-55 pin in the ring finger OOB
Tremendous Pearl 75-3.5-35 OOB
Pyramid Curse 5.5x35 Polished
Pyramid Blood Moon Rising 80-4.75-35 Polished
Thanks Eric
FYI tremendous pearl and intel layouts suggested on Facebook by Mo himself.
Also I need to fix my signature as my rotation is closer to 70 now. so between 60-80 I would say
-Knowledge is power-
PAP-5 1/16 by 3/4 up
Speed-14-15mph on monitor
Rev-325rpm
Tilt-10*
Rotation-70*-90*

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EricHartwell
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Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
Speed: 16 off hand
Rev Rate: 330
Axis Tilt: 12
Axis Rotation: 45
Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous
Medium Oil Ball: Motiv Villain, Hammer Nail, Brunswick True Motion
Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer, Columbia Nitrous
Location: Michigan

Re: VAL angle question

Post by EricHartwell » January 22nd, 2019, 1:31 am

Lledsmarttam wrote:Thanks Eric
FYI tremendous pearl and intel layouts suggested on Facebook by Mo himself.
Also I need to fix my signature as my rotation is closer to 70 now. so between 60-80 I would say
Are you pleased with the reactions you get out of the Tremendous and Intel?
Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand

Lledsmarttam
Member
Member
Posts: 136
Joined: August 8th, 2017, 1:40 am
THS Average: 198
Positive Axis Point: 5 1/16 by 3/4 up
Speed: 14-15 mph on monitor
Rev Rate: 325
Axis Tilt: 10
Axis Rotation: 70
Heavy Oil Ball: Optimus solid
Medium Oil Ball: Antidote, Zero Gravity
Light Oil Ball: Rave On,Pathogen
Location: Lake Geneva WI

Re: VAL angle question

Post by Lledsmarttam » January 22nd, 2019, 5:45 pm

EricHartwell wrote: Are you pleased with the reactions you get out of the Tremendous and Intel?
Not on ths but have liked them on some sport patterns. I just changed surface on Intel to 4000 last night and planning to try it tonight. I will let you know. Was mostly just letting you know why I used them and that I didn't come up with them on my own.
-Knowledge is power-
PAP-5 1/16 by 3/4 up
Speed-14-15mph on monitor
Rev-325rpm
Tilt-10*
Rotation-70*-90*

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