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 Post subject: Track clipping middle finger on release/initial track
 Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 3:10 pm Post Number: #1 Post
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I did an experimental layout on a ball for myself. I am having an issue with initial track rolling over middle finger for first few revolutions.
It is a Radical Tremendous solid.
Drilled 140x2x80
my stats are listed below.
my normal track is about 1' away form fingers and 1/2" away from thumb for reference.

Before plugging the ball and putting another layout on it wanted to ask around if anyone thinks that a balance hole could possibly pull my track off the finger hole?


I really like the motion I got with this layout, other than the fact that it clips the holes. I may just leave it alone as I have a nib tremendous solid as well.

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 Post subject: Re: Track clipping middle finger on release/initial track
 Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 4:54 pm Post Number: #2 Post
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Is the pin above the flare safe line for high track players? I.e. line from pap to ring finger is generally considered the flare safe line. I’m guessing with an 80* VAL angle that isn’t the case.

So, you could try a flare increasing hole to get the ball to flare a touch more and get it off the fingers. But ultimately I think that a plug and redrill is in order.

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 Post subject: Re: Track clipping middle finger on release/initial track
 Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:04 pm Post Number: #3 Post
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fufu wrote:
Is the pin above the flare safe line for high track players? I.e. line from pap to ring finger is generally considered the flare safe line. I’m guessing with an 80* VAL angle that isn’t the case.

So, you could try a flare increasing hole to get the ball to flare a touch more and get it off the fingers. But ultimately I think that a plug and redrill is in order.



Not sure how to attach a picture but yes pin is pretty close to center line of grip (horizontal when looking at grip) below ring finger. I guess refer to it as midline?? To put it into perspective a 55* VAL angle at 4 1/4 PTP puts pin in my ring finger.

I have a symm drilled 60x5x70 which also puts pin below my fingers which tracks normally and off the fingers for me.

Flare more in the air more then? not sure why its causing initial pap change that is so drastic?

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 Post subject: Re: Track clipping middle finger on release/initial track
 Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:30 am Post Number: #4 Post
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Recommended limits of:

Drilling angle from 10*min to 90* max
VAL angle from 20*min to 70* max
and Pin to PAPs from 3/4”min to 6 1/4” max

are recommended precisely to keep a ball flare safe...

With all due respect and out of my innate curiosity, why in the world would you choose to have a total sum of the angles of 220 with a low flaring pin?

Your specs seem fairly normal (except for the high axis rotation).


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 Post subject: Re: Track clipping middle finger on release/initial track
 Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:40 pm Post Number: #5 Post
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TonyPR wrote:
Recommended limits of:

Drilling angle from 10*min to 90* max
VAL angle from 20*min to 70* max
and Pin to PAPs from 3/4”min to 6 1/4” max

are recommended precisely to keep a ball flare safe...

With all due respect and out of my innate curiosity, why in the world would you choose to have a total sum of the angles of 220 with a low flaring pin?

Your specs seem fairly normal (except for the high axis rotation).


Because I am CRAZY

Thanks for giving me the information on drilling angles and val angles though. First time I've ever heard of this? LOL Sorry but I'm sarcastic by nature.
Its ok as your not the first person to ask that. Well its because i already had a ball at
90x2 1/4x45 and it was too much and not a ball I could keep my angles straight with as I had hoped. Therefore I used the old "dont be shy" method and went for it. It wont be the last time i make a mistake either I'm sure!!


Either way the ball rolls fantastic for me and is just what i wanted as far as playing straighter angles and overall reaction. The question was just a fishing expedition to see if I was correct in thinking a strong xhole would move initial track...which has yet to have been answered.

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 Post subject: Re: Track clipping middle finger on release/initial track
 Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:42 pm Post Number: #6 Post
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Lledsmarttam wrote:
I did an experimental layout on a ball for myself. I am having an issue with initial track rolling over middle finger for first few revolutions.
It is a Radical Tremendous solid.
Drilled 140x2x80
my stats are listed below.
my normal track is about 1' away form fingers and 1/2" away from thumb for reference.

Before plugging the ball and putting another layout on it wanted to ask around if anyone thinks that a balance hole could possibly pull my track off the finger hole?


I really like the motion I got with this layout, other than the fact that it clips the holes. I may just leave it alone as I have a nib tremendous solid as well.

Have you rechecked your PAP on this ball?
PAP measurements can be quite different on lower flaring setups.

I see this layout 140x2x80 as an attempt at a low flare layout trying to keep the Cg as close to grip center as possible so that a balance hole would not be needed.

You could try a couple of things.
Drill the thumb hole as deep and large as possible to try to pull the PSA towards the thumb. This will act like a P3 balance hole. Creating more flare.
Double Thumb balance hole in conjunction with the deep thumb could possibly pull the PSA far enough to achieve a Drilling Angle of ~100*-110* and increasing flare.

The Tremendous has a fairly strong PSA .018. Its going to take large deep holes to move it.

Will it work?
I would have to say maybe and I would expect a stronger reaction if you do manage to get your track off the finger.

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 Post subject: Re: Track clipping middle finger on release/initial track
 Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 3:21 am Post Number: #7 Post
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Funny 8-) I’m a bit crazy too. Hey next time maybe selecting something weaker like a Track Tundra Solid and putting a more normal layout might do the trick.


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 Post subject: Re: Track clipping middle finger on release/initial track
 Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 3:55 pm Post Number: #8 Post
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If I remember the new rules correctly balance holes will be illegal as of next August, so that would be a short term fix. Plug the ball and redrill it or throw it like it is. -- JohnP


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 Post subject: Re: Track clipping middle finger on release/initial track
 Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 5:04 pm Post Number: #9 Post
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JohnP wrote:
If I remember the new rules correctly balance holes will be illegal as of next August, so that would be a short term fix. Plug the ball and redrill it or throw it like it is. -- JohnP


August 1st, 2020.

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 Post subject: Re: Track clipping middle finger on release/initial track
 Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:14 pm Post Number: #10 Post
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EricHartwell wrote:
Have you rechecked your PAP on this ball?
PAP measurements can be quite different on lower flaring setups.


I see this layout 140x2x80 as an attempt at a low flare layout trying to keep the Cg as close to grip center as possible so that a balance hole would not be needed.

You could try a couple of things.
Drill the thumb hole as deep and large as possible to try to pull the PSA towards the thumb. This will act like a P3 balance hole. Creating more flare.
Double Thumb balance hole in conjunction with the deep thumb could possibly pull the PSA far enough to achieve a Drilling Angle of ~100*-110* and increasing flare.

The Tremendous has a fairly strong PSA .018. Its going to take large deep holes to move it.

Will it work?
I would have to say maybe and I would expect a stronger reaction if you do manage to get your track off the finger.


I have not checked it yet but it is definitly different. Thanks Eric. Always helpful and thanks for actually providing an answer to the original question.

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PAP-5 1/16 by 3/4 up
Speed-14-15mph on monitor
Rev-325rpm
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Rotation-70*-90*


Last edited by Lledsmarttam on Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Track clipping middle finger on release/initial track
 Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:16 pm Post Number: #11 Post
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TonyPR wrote:
Funny 8-) I’m a bit crazy too. Hey next time maybe selecting something weaker like a Track Tundra Solid and putting a more normal layout might do the trick.


:lol: :lol: :lol: I already have weaker balls with "normal layouts" on them!

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 Post subject: Re: Track clipping middle finger on release/initial track
 Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 5:15 pm Post Number: #12 Post
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MegaMav wrote:

August 1st, 2020.


I stand corrected, should have gone to bowl.com and checked. Thanks -- JohnP


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