thumbless bowler ideas

Which layout is right for me?

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TonyPR
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Re: thumbless bowler ideas

Post by TonyPR »

The Tenacity would be a good choice for someone needing more length (like you say your ball rolls out).

Nice shooting! One thing though, a pin down will for most be a larger VAL angle, what a larger VAL angle does is it will extend the hook phase. It is a common misconception that pin downs read earlier, a smaller drilling angle or a rougher surface will do that. On symmetrical balls with a thumbhole, the thumbhole will more or less define the drilling angle unless a balance hole is used. Are your Rebel and Mag35 drilled with only finger holes? If so I would really like to see video of the reactions, I am at the stage of researching no thumb drilling options.
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Re: thumbless bowler ideas

Post by spencer6392 »

well whether its reads earluer or extends the hook phase irs working for now its giving the ball time to do all of its phases where is pin up seem to never have a chsnce to roll at its right time. mo did a whole guide to layouts for no thumb bowlers but never really gave s chance . my isdue this year is i needed more length in solids and less length in pearls. other things affectiing reaction wouod ve style while im considered at matched bowler most no thumbs are exrremly slow speed and rev dominate so that changes the problom the most . the biggest problom across tge board tho is getting the ball through the heads as why most of us are throwing sinny products unless theres a crap ton of oil
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Re: thumbless bowler ideas

Post by EricHartwell »

spencer6392 wrote:im a new to bowling being my second year and being competive still cary a 180 average do to subpar spare shooting and horendous carry for my style. bowl in 3 houses on old wood 1 on house 1 on modies house and 1 being a sport shot and 2 on synethics both on house.
spencer6392 wrote:going to be drilling a tenacicy here in tge next couple days just got home from bowling shot 652 throwing pin down hammer rebel and last game 252 with my mag 035 pearli seem to be falling in love with the pin down as it tends to allow the ball to be clean through the heads but tread early
What house?
What oil Pattern?
First game?
Second game?

Looks to me like you didn't start scoring until the lanes broke down. Ask yourself this question...
Why didn't I score better in the early games?
I think I know why but I want to hear what you think the answer is.

I have asked several times to verify for me where your PAP measured from.
Is it from the center of a pseudo 3 hole grip or is it from the bridge?
After re-reading this thread I am assuming it is from the center of the 3 hole grip on the Bowler Id ball.

My recommendations for the Tenacity and the Kinetic were made thinking it was from the Bridge.
I am going back to edit out my recommendations.

What house and what condition do you want the Tenacity for?
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PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
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Re: thumbless bowler ideas

Post by spencer6392 »

well i went 212 187 253 i bowled tge best the last gake do to me making a good ball choice i bowked bad the second gane cuz i missed 3 really easy spares and gane 1 i missed a a 10 pin and a split. tge last hsnd measured pap was 5 1/4 over 5/8 down the bowler id ball gave me 6 1/4 over 1/4 up the house is wood and its a challange shot leauge right now were bowling on team usa for 2017 worlds .
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Re: thumbless bowler ideas

Post by spencer6392 »

so an updare drilled tge tanancity 75*5*20 and it gives semi length with tones of hook but i needs alot of oil signs of reading early hitting brooklyn burning up epecialy once i got outta game one but again this was bowling on a burnt up 5 person leauge the night before. i threw my pin down motive revokt vengeance and it rolled over overthibg but still gave me better look better continuation and cleaner through the lane my question is should i try the tenacity on fresh oil or should i go right into sanding it 500/1000/2000 then replolish
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Re: thumbless bowler ideas

Post by 44boyd »

I’d try fresh league or tournament shot first, open play is not a good measuring stick for ball reaction when trying to fit it in a lineup

Curious as why you went 5 inch PAP? That makes it roll earlier
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Re: thumbless bowler ideas

Post by spencer6392 »

all i told my pro shop guy was i wanted long and snap and thats what he drilled amd i said ok i dont know all if this stuff he drilld anf i say ok what woullda been a better layout for a skid snap of my pap of 6 1/4 over 1/4 up
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Re: thumbless bowler ideas

Post by spencer6392 »

what is generaly the best pim to pap on aysms and syms to retain tilt and energy
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Re: thumbless bowler ideas

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I’d refer back to Eric’s suggestions, but you’d have to choose which house and shot you want it to fill. But since it’s already drilled, I’d try it on both houses to see how you like it before you change anything.
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Re: thumbless bowler ideas

Post by spencer6392 »

all i know is the first number is 70 and the last numbers 20 might be wrong on the 5 but general rule on aysms what pin to pap retains tilt? same with syms it seems like the longer to pap on syms it reatains while shorter on aysms
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Re: thumbless bowler ideas

Post by 44boyd »

For your stats, Eric gave you custom layouts. The Wiki has all the general information which Explains the flare and pin to pap. The only thing is Mo has kind of gone away from different pin to paps for asymmetric to symmetric, so it’s gone against what is normally talked about.

And again, the ball itself will tell you what type look it’s going to give you. So same layout on a Katana which is probably the best skid flip look you’ll see will not look the same on the Grit. A regular Tenacity might have been a better choice if that shape is what you were looking for.
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Re: thumbless bowler ideas

Post by EricHartwell »

Post a picture of the Tenacity showing grip pin and mass bias.
EricHartwell wrote:Is the PAP measured from the bridge or from the center of a three hole grip? It matters.
Any layouts I give will be based off the center of grip located on the bridge.

Sweetspot 100*, 2.4:1 Ratio

Asymmetrical layouts
Totally Strong ................. 60-4-25
Midlane ......................... 50-3.5-30
Benchmark ..................... 70-3-30
Long and Strong .............. 90-3-30
Control ........................... 75-3-50
low flare ......................... 90-2-30

Symmetrical Layouts

Benchmark ..................... xx-4.5-25
Control ........................... xx-4.5-45
low flare (high Rg)............ xx-5.5-30 fingers normal depth
low flare (low Rg)............. xx-2-30 fingers 3.5" to 4" deep
I gave you this list of customized layouts for your release. Shorter pin to PAP with Asymmetrical balls is going to retain tilt just like what my recommendations show.

You now have another ball that you will be able to use an excuse for not carrying.
You also made me feel like I have done nothing more than wasted my time.

Your proshop operator gave you exactly what you asked for.
Eric Hartwell

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PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
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Re: thumbless bowler ideas

Post by spencer6392 »

i compleyly missed the layout revomendations as im new to this site so i apolgize if i can tell the 70 still isnt emouhh length and i tried sanding to 2000 and polishing and it still hasnt fixrd the issue if it still doesnt cooperate gonna do a plug and redrill
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Re: thumbless bowler ideas

Post by spencer6392 »

so is there a brand recomendation out there that tends to be better for lower tilt bowlers i think it mightbbe time to move on from brunswick and there 500 grit base surface i tried sanding it to 2000 i tried reploshing and it just point blank dosnt make a difference i know you still gotta ball down from the tenacity but nothing just seems to line up for me on this super old wood crapnton of frictions in play and it dont reslly seems like it mstters . oelr is it better to say its a sports shot psttern snd i shouldnt csre what it does cuz im scoring in otger houses
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Re: thumbless bowler ideas

Post by 44boyd »

The brand is fine, what you need to do is build an arsenal off of what Eric gave you. Me personally, I’d list all your balls with pictures so he can decipher what you have and go from there. Balls will have a purpose, not fit every situation.
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Re: thumbless bowler ideas

Post by spencer6392 »

i have a brunswick method that is 70*4 1/2* 35
i have a brunswick og tenacity thatbis 70*idk*20
i have a brunswick magnitude 035 pearl 75*idk*40 i think
i have a btu pearl 90*idk* idk
a hammer rebel pearl pin undering ring finger has best engery and hitting power
have a motive revolt vegeance same latout as hammer rebel second best look in bag
order of best look
1 hammer rebel
2 motive revolt vengeance
3 brunswick method
4 035 pearl
5 tenacity
6 btu pearl
if someone can tell how to upload pics i can
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Re: thumbless bowler ideas

Post by 44boyd »

Above the textbox, use the Img button and post link between the [Img] boxes
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Re: thumbless bowler ideas

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what do you mean by link my pics dont have links
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Re: thumbless bowler ideas

Post by spencer6392 »

it keeps telling me my pic is to big but i have tge pics ready to upload
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Re: thumbless bowler ideas

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You need to compress the size of the file, google how on if you’re using your phone or desktop
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