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 Post subject: thumbless bowler ideas
 Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 1:43 pm Post Number: #1 Post
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im a new to bowling being my second year and being competive still cary a 180 average do to subpar spare shooting and horendous carry for my style. bowl in 3 houses on old wood 1 on house 1 on modies house and 1 being a sport shot and 2 on synethics both on house. i know im a high tack and inverted track exremly low tilt pap of 5 and 1/4 over 5/8 down ball speed around 17 mph but dont really wrap around the ball and put revs on it maybe 300ish so msybe closer to mstched or very slighty speed dominste tge only ball i have i like is a method at 70 x4.5* 35 and it deffinetly gives me a good look on house but nit as much on sport ive tried mos no thumb layouts ive tried emailing mo ive tried low flare layouts just everytging seems to hook in the heads and have no action down laneor hit as flat as can be none of my stuff has a chance to leave a 4 pin everthing is flat ir ringing 10 pins i have a btu pearl with a liw flare layout and a 035 pearl with another 70 layout any advice woukd help alot thanks


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 Post subject: Re: thumbless bowler ideas
 Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 3:20 pm Post Number: #2 Post
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Welcome to BowlingChat

First off I recommend a plastic ball for spares. Practice them, develop a system where you know where to stand and where to look for each pin.

If you track close to your middle finger with a PAP of 5 and 1/4 over 5/8 down your tilt is very close to zero with -5* clipping the middle finger. This is assuming your PAP is measured from the bridge.

I need more than estimations to help you with layouts.
How is speed measured?
What is your actual rev rate?
How low is your rotation with your not wrapping around the ball release?

Check out this link for the needed information and how to obtain it...

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=373

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PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand


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 Post subject: Re: thumbless bowler ideas
 Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 7:22 pm Post Number: #3 Post
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Welcome Spencer,
Was the PAP measured with the
Method or a different ball? Does the ball that the PAP was taken from have a thumb hole drilled in it?

I don't use a thumb either. Your PAP location will change depending on whether or not a thumb hole is drilled into the ball.

Pearl and polished balls will help get the ball down lane more.

Jason

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PAP 6 1/4 over 0 up or down. Pap figured from the center of the bridge.
Rev Rate ~450
Speed 16.5 off the hand
Axis Tilt 10 Degrees
Axis Rotation 40-50 degrees
1 Hand 2 Finger Delivery


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 Post subject: Re: thumbless bowler ideas
 Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 4:26 am Post Number: #4 Post
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pap was mesaured with a no thumb ball speed was guessed at 17 from my average of being 16.5 to 17.5 so i guessed at 17 i have a plastic ball just have trouble with lineing up and pulling the spare ball miss alot to the left as its my natural tendency to over drift i am not your normal no thumb guy tho i strugle to get any type of downlane motion . i actuslu todsy have thrown my friends pind down balls today with succes and good contunation still for my style still leaving lots of 10 pins im going to do a bowler id session here soon i just dont know when to get actual numbers all i know is im tired of not carrying . all my balls go long and have zero reaction on thr end except fir the method. i dont knoe if its bad lsyouts bad pins to pap to smooth of ball selection but someyhimgs gotra give here soon


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 Post subject: Re: thumbless bowler ideas
 Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 4:52 am Post Number: #5 Post
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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=75MBu1PJ5MU


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 Post subject: Re: thumbless bowler ideas
 Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 4:53 am Post Number: #6 Post
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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wDjeBJSsDPw


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 Post subject: Re: thumbless bowler ideas
 Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 4:54 am Post Number: #7 Post
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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oMSqqAAVIXs


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 Post subject: Re: thumbless bowler ideas
 Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 4:57 am Post Number: #8 Post
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 Post subject: Re: thumbless bowler ideas
 Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 6:10 pm Post Number: #9 Post
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What ball are you using in the videos and what is the layout? I know there are people smarter than me on here but to me it looks like the ball is just skidding and has no time to react. We would need to know the exact measurements of axis tilt, axis rotation, and rev rate to give an exact layout recommendation. We could use the speed of 17mph and your pap since you already know those.

Based on the video alone I would classify you as speed dominant but that is just a guess. If you are that would mean you would want lower sums and ratios, something dull nothing shiny, asymmetrical would give you more options or would at least let you control the drill angle.

I'm sure someone else will chime in but we do need accurate measurements to give you a proper layout.

Jason

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PAP 6 1/4 over 0 up or down. Pap figured from the center of the bridge.
Rev Rate ~450
Speed 16.5 off the hand
Axis Tilt 10 Degrees
Axis Rotation 40-50 degrees
1 Hand 2 Finger Delivery


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 Post subject: Re: thumbless bowler ideas
 Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:21 pm Post Number: #10 Post
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I wouldn’t necessarily say he’s speed dominant yet, he’s lofting the ball to the arrows so it doesn’t have time to read.

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 Post subject: Re: thumbless bowler ideas
 Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:52 pm Post Number: #11 Post
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ball in that video was a 035 pearl the video was shown to see how it comes off my hand im trying to line up a time with a pso to do bowler id . looking like saturday morning as of now . but as ive told other people this video was shot on a 44 ft iffeal tour and the heads were shot if i throw anything wuth surface it hooks at my feet the point on the video was to show how it comes off my hand not if it struck or if it skid the ball skid as that was the shot i was trying to accomplish but wasnt the point of the video .


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 Post subject: Re: thumbless bowler ideas
 Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 10:07 pm Post Number: #12 Post
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all i know is my method rolls good at this point i need to build off my method and i agree with slightly speed dominate but wont know exact numbers untill this weekend only ball safe in my bag is my method but i still need stuff that will get clean through the front but still hook but not go to long and still carry energy as i know im not the usual thumbless bowler im thinking bout getting a tenacity but i dont kmow what else to get i dont kmow what rgs what differentials what layouts ect i just gotta figure things out but all i know is i cant keep leaving 9 counts or bowlings getting less fun very fast


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 Post subject: Re: thumbless bowler ideas
 Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 5:47 am Post Number: #13 Post
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spencer6392 wrote:
ball in that video was a 035 pearl the video was shown to see how it comes off my hand im trying to line up a time with a pso to do bowler id . looking like saturday morning as of now . but as ive told other people this video was shot on a 44 ft iffeal tour and the heads were shot if i throw anything wuth surface it hooks at my feet the point on the video was to show how it comes off my hand not if it struck or if it skid the ball skid as that was the shot i was trying to accomplish but wasnt the point of the video .


In order for a ball to carry (not leave 9 counts like you don’t want) it needs to go through the three phases of ball motion: skid, hook and roll. In other words a ball must slow down in order to have the best probability to strike. Search this forum for the phases of ball motion, there’s plenty of material to read on that.

About your technique, I coach an over 200 avg one handed no thumb and can see a few things in your technique that if worked on will give you more effortless power and accuracy but I will not comment on that unless you want me to.


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 Post subject: Re: thumbless bowler ideas
 Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 1:36 pm Post Number: #14 Post
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i understand that the ball nees to slow down and the ball needs read earlier for me and thid is where im trapped i have to big of a gap from my method to me 035 pearl i have balls in mind im thinking of trying like a vapor zone a cutting edge solid a fearless a poison but the thing is is that i need a proper bag buit last year my problom was i couknt keep the ball on lane this year i can only leave ten pins and 8 pins and its frustrating im off a night on monday night where i left 20 9 counts outta 30 frames its not fun when you arent scoring and the balls tgere its jusy not picking up soon enough . i will always take advce on technique but the point of this post was to figure out a better 4 ball bag building of my method and maybe by lucky get some avive from mo sense he created no thumb layouts for rafical but no luck witj that but in tererms all ball motion in that video i had no choixe but to throw that ball my method was hooking at my feet 035 solid at the foul like so that was the shot i needed to play . so i have ideas od what i wang but it may not be what i need but you still can only destroy the poxckey and lwave crap before you give up and im almost there


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 Post subject: Re: thumbless bowler ideas
 Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 2:36 pm Post Number: #15 Post
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Being in Tampa I get to see Tom Daugherty a lot, it takes very heavy oil to get him out of a urethane. So I’d recommend a true motion and tactic control for you since you seem to like Brunswick. I’d look at the freak shows or ridiculous line too. You don’t need strong equipment, just learn to not loft so much to give it time to read and not burn up.

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 Post subject: Re: thumbless bowler ideas
 Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 3:44 pm Post Number: #16 Post
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i dont normally loft at all that was one special occasion ill need to get better videos that was just all the videos i had at the time when i try to come around it more i tend to loft ususally im very upright and my usual miss is bouncing tge ball but usually throw is it rools with no loft and rolls at the foul line


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 Post subject: Re: thumbless bowler ideas
 Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 4:38 pm Post Number: #17 Post
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Ok, so “any help is appreciated” is really not? Got it. So you want a ball that will let you not move your feet at all when the Method burns up?

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 Post subject: Re: thumbless bowler ideas
 Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 6:10 pm Post Number: #18 Post
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the issue is is that the heads go my method goes i then have a 035 pearl a btu pearl a track ultra heat all of those balls still skate to much but the method cant go anywhere chz it stands up in the first 10 feet and stands up i have tried going low end and to play the track but that doesnt suit me as well as hooking the ball and time i try to play tge track i either dump it in the gutter or i pull it so yes i guess you can say im trying to build a bag of stuff i dont need to move much with rather then just ball down


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 Post subject: Re: thumbless bowler ideas
 Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 6:18 pm Post Number: #19 Post
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as of right now the best looks of my hand besides my method has been pim under on the rrming finger on something clean i might comsider drilling my 035 pearl that way or maybe get something 1500 polish and thriw that layout on it or going with a aysm with a higer rg like a honey badger or a purple kinetic and drilling it pin down


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 Post subject: Re: thumbless bowler ideas
 Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 6:21 pm Post Number: #20 Post
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ive thrown a pin down hamer rebel pearl like that but with a rg of 2.48 and not as clean of a cover i like it burns up to but i like the motion alot


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