Total Angle Sums

Which layout is right for me?

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deanchamp
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Total Angle Sums

Post by deanchamp » October 6th, 2018, 6:12 am

I was at a Del Warren coaching conference recently and his Dual Angle benchmark or balanced sum was 105. I've seen Slowinski use this as well. The breakdown below is what they both listed:

75 speed dominant
90 slightly speed dominant
105 balanced
120 slightly rev dominant
135 rev dominant

I remember Mo writing many years ago that he tended to lean towards stronger layouts, hence benchamrk was 95. Does anyone have a reference to this?

Thanks
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elgavachon
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Re: Total Angle Sums

Post by elgavachon » October 6th, 2018, 7:14 am

deanchamp wrote:I was at a Del Warren coaching conference recently and his Dual Angle benchmark or balanced sum was 105. I've seen Slowinski use this as well. The breakdown below is what they both listed:

75 speed dominant
90 slightly speed dominant
105 balanced
120 slightly rev dominant
135 rev dominant

I remember Mo writing many years ago that he tended to lean towards stronger layouts, hence benchamrk was 95. Does anyone have a reference to this?

Thanks
I remembered him saying:
"Personally, I use 275 rpms is matched to 17.5 mph."
If we give a 95* total sums to a bowler with those specs, a bowler with 300 revs/17mph would become rev dominant and need higher total sums making those charts correct.

I put it in the "Mo says" thread (post #62). I got it from: viewtopic.php?t=5596" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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EricHartwell
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Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
Speed: 16 off hand
Rev Rate: 330
Axis Tilt: 12
Axis Rotation: 45
Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous
Medium Oil Ball: Motiv Villain, Hammer Nail, Brunswick True Motion
Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer, Columbia Nitrous
Location: Michigan

Re: Total Angle Sums

Post by EricHartwell » October 6th, 2018, 10:04 pm

From my experience and the feedback I get, the Benchmark based off 95* for matched, is a Strong reaction that needs oil to perform. Best on a heavily oiled medium length condition. Not really a condition most bowlers see unless they are in challenge/sport leagues.
It is usable on fresh house shots but gets you deeper inside than most are comfortable.
My recommendations for house shots are the Long and Strong, Control and low flare layouts.
All are +20* from the Benchmark total based on 95* for matched.

It makes sense, if you are managing an arsenal be it for yourself or a customer, to be Benchmarked within a Range for the condition being bowled on. If it is only house shots then why not use higher totals and center it between the usable range for that bowler for that condition.
Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand

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deanchamp
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Re: Total Angle Sums

Post by deanchamp » October 7th, 2018, 1:07 pm

Thanks for your replies, and yes Eric I'm finding the same thing here, the 95 benchmark is often too strong if there isn't the volume of oil, and the ball can lose energy too quickly.
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elgavachon
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Re: Total Angle Sums

Post by elgavachon » October 7th, 2018, 4:04 pm

deanchamp wrote:Thanks for your replies, and yes Eric I'm finding the same thing here, the 95 benchmark is often too strong if there isn't the volume of oil, and the ball can lose energy too quickly.
. I think balls are getting stronger also

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EricHartwell
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Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
Speed: 16 off hand
Rev Rate: 330
Axis Tilt: 12
Axis Rotation: 45
Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous
Medium Oil Ball: Motiv Villain, Hammer Nail, Brunswick True Motion
Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer, Columbia Nitrous
Location: Michigan

Re: Total Angle Sums

Post by EricHartwell » October 7th, 2018, 5:08 pm

elgavachon has a very good point about the coverstrength. Today's second tier balls are as strong as the premium balls from just a few years ago.

Getting the Benchmark to be usable as the first ball out of the bag I think is the idea here.

We will no longer have the option to use a balance hole to effectively raise or lower the totals to tune the ball to bowler to lane condition. It is going to be more difficult to please a customer, set up an athlete's arsenal or be pleased with your own decisions.

This is a good discussion to help bring to light the affect of the totals.
The more friction you have to work with either the ball or the lanes, the less you need the core to help get the ball to roll, higher totals.
With less friction more help is needed from the core, so lower totals.

Judging the amount of friction from the lanes and making online recommendations is not so easy. Thus to err on the strong side was how Mo dealt with this.
I use the same philosophy when figuring out the Basic Arsenal, But I take that into consideration when I make specific recommendations. Then I have a tendency to err on the side of control. I personally do not like over reactions.
Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand

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deanchamp
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Re: Total Angle Sums

Post by deanchamp » October 9th, 2018, 5:27 am

There is a lot to consider with layouts, and I'm becoming more mindful of friction each year - with the coverstocks and the lane. Bowlers are also using much more surface than OOB on their balls than ever before, which can sometime override the layout. I've learnt not to stress over 5 degrees here or there for the dual angles if I know the bowler is going to hit the ball with 1000 grit.

I'm always considering the amount of flare too, as I've found a benchmark of 95 with a 4" pin to PAP (symm or assym) can get to the pin to spin line too quickly on low RG/high diff balls, and they are sometimes best served with less flaring pin to PAP lengths.

And yes the loss of balance holes will take away some of the fine tuning that can be done. Thinking about it now, slightly weaker layouts could be compensated with more surface, but stronger layouts won't always be better with less surface.
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