Low Flare Layout Advice

Which layout is right for me?

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply
lpc300
Member
Member
Posts: 41
Joined: January 28th, 2017, 10:52 am

Low Flare Layout Advice

Post by lpc300 »

Looking to drill a low flare ball for a girl I coach. She is very Rev dominant with a speed of around 14 off her hand, high axis tilt, slightly high axis rotation. With this combination, pretty much everything I've drilled for her is Control, often with a P1 hole. She gets the ball down the lane pretty well, but once it starts moving, it really moves. I'm thinking about going Low Flare with something with a lower differential like a Tropical Breeze. Mo's Low Flare suggestion would be 90x2.5x45. I'm wondering two things: firstly, would it be better to go with a 5.5 pin to PAP distance to delay the hook further, and would the 45 VAL angle still be too low considering how she throws the ball?

I am open to any suggestion, layout, ball, surface, anything. Thanks in advance.
User avatar
EricHartwell
Trusted Source
Trusted Source
Posts: 4080
Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
Speed: 16 off hand
Rev Rate: 330
Axis Tilt: 12
Axis Rotation: 45
Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
Medium Oil Ball: EVO pearl, True Motion, Columbia Command, DV8 Intimidator
Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer
Location: Michigan

Re: Low Flare Layout Advice

Post by EricHartwell »

What kind of ball motion are you look to get for her.
While your description of her bowling style paints a picture specific release specs are needed to give you an accurate layout for her.

Check out this link for the needed information...
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=373" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
lpc300
Member
Member
Posts: 41
Joined: January 28th, 2017, 10:52 am

Re: Low Flare Layout Advice

Post by lpc300 »

EricHartwell wrote:What kind of ball motion are you look to get for her.
While your description of her bowling style paints a picture specific release specs are needed to give you an accurate layout for her.

Check out this link for the needed information...
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=373" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Right, sorry about that:

Speed: 14 off her hand
Rev Rate: 380-400
Initial Axis Rotation: 65
Initial Axis Tilt: 8.3 (12.25 inches)

I'm looking for a very arcy motion. Not snappy at all.
User avatar
snick
BCU Graduate Layouts
BCU Graduate Layouts
Posts: 759
Joined: August 31st, 2014, 8:00 pm
THS Average: 196
Sport Average: 180
Positive Axis Point: 5.5625" x .625 up
Speed: 17 off hand
Rev Rate: 360
Axis Tilt: 17
Axis Rotation: 55
Heavy Oil Ball: Storm Physix
Medium Oil Ball: Storm Streetfight
Light Oil Ball: Rotogrip Hustle Pearl
Preferred Company: Rotogrip
Location: Tucson, AZ

Re: Low Flare Layout Advice

Post by snick »

Tropical will provide "artificial" length and over/under on fresh, regardless of the layout. Recommend 500/2000 surface and a strong, flare-safe pin position for this ball design. ie: 75x3.75x25
Benchmark Bowling Pro Shop
Byron

RH
PAP: 5.5625 x .625 up
REVRATE: 360
SPEED: 17mph at release
AR: 55º
AT: 17º
User avatar
EricHartwell
Trusted Source
Trusted Source
Posts: 4080
Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
Speed: 16 off hand
Rev Rate: 330
Axis Tilt: 12
Axis Rotation: 45
Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
Medium Oil Ball: EVO pearl, True Motion, Columbia Command, DV8 Intimidator
Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer
Location: Michigan

Re: Low Flare Layout Advice

Post by EricHartwell »

lpc300 wrote:
Right, sorry about that:

Speed: 14 off her hand
Rev Rate: 380-400
Initial Axis Rotation: 65
Initial Axis Tilt: 8.3 (12.25 inches)

I'm looking for a very arcy motion. Not snappy at all.
Definitely Rev Dominant.

I would like to recommend a layout with a balance hole, But....
With that said I would not recommend such a weak cored ball.
Asymmetrical ball 65-3-65
Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
lpc300
Member
Member
Posts: 41
Joined: January 28th, 2017, 10:52 am

Re: Low Flare Layout Advice

Post by lpc300 »

EricHartwell wrote: Definitely Rev Dominant.

I would like to recommend a layout with a balance hole, But....
With that said I would not recommend such a weak cored ball.
Asymmetrical ball 65-3-65
Thanks for responding, Eric. A few questions:

1) I'm curious... Ive always thought that because of her Rev Dominance, a weaker core would help soften her backend reaction. Is tha "theory" of mine incorrect?

2) I have an old DV8 Rukus Feud. Would that core be too strong?

3) If I go with the Rukus, how would you suggest I tweek the surface? I'm thinking OOB might be too strong.

4) Wouldn't a 3" pin-PAP distance still create too much flare?

I appreciate any suggestions.
elgavachon
Trusted Source
Trusted Source
Posts: 3174
Joined: January 18th, 2010, 9:21 pm

Re: Low Flare Layout Advice

Post by elgavachon »

On a strong asymmetrical ball, I would consider Mo's short pin layout. here is the video:
As far as the finish, do not use skip a grit. Go through all the grits you can and finish with a worn out 4000 at least. skip a grit can be snappy. Going through all grits is more controllable.

[youtube][/youtube]
lpc300
Member
Member
Posts: 41
Joined: January 28th, 2017, 10:52 am

Re: Low Flare Layout Advice

Post by lpc300 »

elgavachon wrote:On a strong asymmetrical ball, I would consider Mo's short pin layout. here is the video:
As far as the finish, do not use skip a grit. Go through all the grits you can and finish with a worn out 4000 at least. skip a grit can be snappy. Going through all grits is more controllable.

[youtube][/youtube]
Thank you. Yeah, I never use skip a grit for her... makes the ball far too snappy. I'm thinking that the short pin layout is the way to go. I've used it on symmetricals with her with varying success.

Do you think some Black Magic polish would be a good idea, to calm down the reaction even more?
User avatar
deanchamp
Trusted Source
Trusted Source
Posts: 455
Joined: August 4th, 2010, 10:23 am
THS Average: 220
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Low Flare Layout Advice

Post by deanchamp »

lpc300 wrote:
Right, sorry about that:

Speed: 14 off her hand
Rev Rate: 380-400
Initial Axis Rotation: 65
Initial Axis Tilt: 8.3 (12.25 inches)

I'm looking for a very arcy motion. Not snappy at all.
Hi, have you got any video of her bowling? I'm curious as to how she gets 400rpm at 14mph off her hand.
USBC Silver Level Coach
BCU Graduate - Mastery of Layouts
BTM contributor
Post Reply