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 Post subject: What did I do to this DV8 grudge Pearl and Radical Xeno?
 Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 6:46 am Post Number: #1 Post
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I am a new 2-handed, no-thumb bowler. I like to start from the far left and use the whole lane. I want to create a bowling ball that skids and flips drastically. I have a DV8 Grudge Pearl and Radical Xeno.

After providing my request to my local pro-shop, they provided me with the following drilling layouts (photos attached). Are these correct layouts for a skid/flip layout? They are not performing as hoped. Don't hook early or enough and keep going too far right.

Why did he drill the finger holes so far below the pin? How does this affect the ball?

What drilling layouts for a skid/flip do you guys recommend for these balls?

My thoughts:
Radical Xeno: 70 X 3 3/8 X 30
Dv8 Grudge Pearl: 45 X 3 3/8 X 30

Any help is greatly appreciated!

PS: I got the balls for sale $60 each. Changed the cover stock for the Xeno so it acts more like a pearl.


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 Post subject: Re: What did I do to this DV8 grudge Pearl and Radical Xeno?
 Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:27 am Post Number: #2 Post
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First of all, that zeno will never act like a pearl no matter what you do to that coverstock. That cover is meant for a slow response off the friction to control the pocket, not a skid flip kind of reaction.

I'd say your PSO was probably following the advice from Radical about drilling the cg in the ring finger but hard to know. Your pap might also be over and up from the grip center, that would explain why the pin is so far above the fingers.

Depends on your pap if they look right or not, hard to tell with no thumbers, our pap varies greatly between people.

I'd also guess you are just playing way to deep for what the conditions are giving you, no matter what ball you throw or how you think 2 handers should play the lane. If they are going too long, start with adding surface or move right.


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 Post subject: Re: What did I do to this DV8 grudge Pearl and Radical Xeno?
 Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:52 pm Post Number: #3 Post
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LakeMann wrote:
My thoughts:
Radical Xeno: 70 X 3 3/8 X 30
Dv8 Grudge Pearl: 45 X 3 3/8 X 30


Usually skid flip layouts have pin to pap distances that promote retaining tilt, for asymmetrical balls that would be pins <3".

Something like 80 x 2 3/4 x 40.

Do you know your release specs?

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Kyle Robinson
Ball Speed - 18 off hand
Revs - 375
Tilt - 14
Rotation - 45
PAP - 4 5/8 over 3/8 up


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 Post subject: Re: What did I do to this DV8 grudge Pearl and Radical Xeno?
 Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 4:26 pm Post Number: #4 Post
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I do not agree with the shorter pin to PAP on Asyms for skid flip reaction. It will burn of tilt and rotation at a slower rate making for a longer hook zone.

Not enough information is available to give an accurate layout.

Needed information...
Speed
RPMs
Tilt
Rotation
PAP measurement.

Check out this link to help with determining your release specs...

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=373

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Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand


Last edited by EricHartwell on Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: What did I do to this DV8 grudge Pearl and Radical Xeno?
 Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 5:20 pm Post Number: #5 Post
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2 handed, no thumb can have wildly different PAPs just like 1 handers.
Couldnt even begin to guess the layouts without your PAP.
I think you need to have a conversation with your pro shop as to the decisions that were made and why.

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 Post subject: Re: What did I do to this DV8 grudge Pearl and Radical Xeno?
 Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 12:22 am Post Number: #6 Post
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With the old rules, you had to keep the CG close to the center of the grip (no thumb) to get the ball legal if it had much top wt at all. High pins give the ball a lot of movement and with what I have seen, a lot of pop for no thumb bowlers. If you lay the core down and put a short Pin to PAP distane, you will get a smooth reaction with not much hook and fairly controllable reaction. If you stand the core up (like kyle said) a short pin will give you a skid flip reaction. Standing the core, you can think of longer pin to PAPs as sanding the ball V.S... On an asymmetrical layout (with large drilling angle and small Val angle with a short pin is like polishing the ball.


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