No more motion hole

Which layout is right for me?

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deanchamp
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No more motion hole

Post by deanchamp » April 26th, 2018, 1:52 am

With the change in USBC rules, there goes my favourite layout and secret weapon, the Motion Hole!! I like to use it on medium to strong reactive solid symm core balls.

With my PAP, I use a pin beside ring layout and motion hole, but with the hole plugged, the ball will go from a long and strong layout to something closer to a control layout.

I'm going to have to try a long and strong layout on an asymm core ball and see if it gives me a similar roll now.

Has anyone compared a motion hole layout with the long and strong asymm layout before? I'm assuming and hoping they might be similar.
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Re: No more motion hole

Post by MegaMav » April 26th, 2018, 2:15 am

I will miss it too.
I may keep it on my Rack Attack Pearl for a practice ball.
I have another one NIB if I ever feel the need to use one in competition, which I probably wont.

Best ball I've used the motion hole on?
Brunswick Fanatic SS with a base layout of 100 x 3 3/4 x 40.
Hole is 1" x 4". Incredible on short patterns where the gutter peels.
I will miss it for that, but my Katana 50 x 4.5 x 40 makes a similar motion.

Its up to us as bowlers to get the ball to react how it should to score, but we cannot substitute what that hole does thru the pindeck.

I'll just throw the SS out in 2020, its already 2nd drill and I dont think I could look at it the same after what I've observed with the hole.
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Re: No more motion hole

Post by EricHartwell » April 26th, 2018, 2:19 am

How about a 7" deep thumbhole?
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Re: No more motion hole

Post by imagonman » April 26th, 2018, 5:18 am

EricHartwell wrote:How about a 7" deep thumbhole?
Well these forward thinking ....:)....USBC futurists will then probably limit depths of drilled holes when PSO's start getting creative. I'm sure it's already on their radar when such occurs.....but then again MB not????

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Re: No more motion hole

Post by deanchamp » April 26th, 2018, 11:07 am

EricHartwell wrote:How about a 7" deep thumbhole?
If you can find me a drill bit long enough, I'll do it!!
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Re: No more motion hole

Post by JohnP » April 26th, 2018, 3:47 pm

I'd love to know what Mo thinks about these changes and what ideas he has for alternative legal layouts. Too bad he doesn't post here any more. -- JohnP

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Re: No more motion hole

Post by MegaMav » April 26th, 2018, 3:51 pm

JohnP wrote:I'd love to know what Mo thinks about these changes and what ideas he has for alternative legal layouts. Too bad he doesn't post here any more. -- JohnP
John, once its known, I'll share and put the instructions in the wiki.
I do not have any inside information but it wouldnt surprise me to see built in motion holes in large cores coming.
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Re: No more motion hole

Post by EricHartwell » April 26th, 2018, 4:08 pm

deanchamp wrote:
If you can find me a drill bit long enough, I'll do it!!
I have already begun searching for one. It is going to be expensive.

I am hoping an overall bit length of 8" won't make my driller have to adjust the table heighth and mess up the zero on his jig.
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Re: No more motion hole

Post by stevespo » April 26th, 2018, 4:41 pm

It depends on what you're using for a drill bit, but a 1/2" shank drill bit extender should be a stock item.

This one looks decent, but may need to be cut down in length. This shorter one might work.

This 3/8" model could probably be modified, unless it's hardened steel.

The 1/2" shank router bit extenders are going to be high quality, but perhaps not long enough.

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Re: No more motion hole

Post by elgavachon » April 26th, 2018, 5:22 pm

JohnP wrote:I'd love to know what Mo thinks about these changes and what ideas he has for alternative legal layouts. Too bad he doesn't post here any more. -- JohnP
Here is a quote from Mo in Feb. of 2010:
"I have been on record for two years suggesting two rules to replace static rules to prevent gimmicks in static weights. One, no ball can be manufactured with more than 4 oz. of top weight before drilling. That would prevent someone with weird static weight ideas from producing balls with a pound of top weight so the ball can be drilled to create a pound of side weight. Two, limit balance hole size to a 1" hole, 3" deep to prevent altering the mass properties too much by using a balance hole. Cg markings are necesary to guarantee the manufactured top weight limit."

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=216" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: No more motion hole

Post by elgavachon » April 26th, 2018, 5:51 pm

deanchamp wrote:With the change in USBC rules, there goes my favourite layout and secret weapon, the Motion Hole!! I like to use it on medium to strong reactive solid symm core balls.

With my PAP, I use a pin beside ring layout and motion hole, but with the hole plugged, the ball will go from a long and strong layout to something closer to a control layout.

I'm going to have to try a long and strong layout on an asymm core ball and see if it gives me a similar roll now.

Has anyone compared a motion hole layout with the long and strong asymm layout before? I'm assuming and hoping they might be similar.
I asked Mo this question, but I cannot find where just yet. I will keep looking. What he told me was to use a drilling angle of 85* and a Val angle of 35* on an asymmetrical ball to try and get the same reaction as the Motion hole on a symmetrical. I don't remmember the exact pin distance, but I remember trying it and using 3 1/4" to 3 3/4" on a lot of balls.

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Re: No more motion hole

Post by ballspoint » April 26th, 2018, 7:56 pm

If a balance hole that removed part of the core was then plugged, with the plug being of lighter material, would the inbalance still be there?
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Re: No more motion hole

Post by elgavachon » April 26th, 2018, 8:50 pm

ballspoint wrote:If a balance hole that removed part of the core was then plugged, with the plug being of lighter material, would the inbalance still be there?
Mo always said it was the thumb-hole working with the balance hole (empty air) and not the static change which gave it the gyroscopic effect. You can get it to track very similar, but the rev-up through the pins is harder to make happen.

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Re: No more motion hole

Post by EricHartwell » April 26th, 2018, 9:39 pm

ballspoint wrote:If a balance hole that removed part of the core was then plugged, with the plug being of lighter material, would the inbalance still be there?
Short answer, yes but depending on how light a material is used to fill the hole.

Is there a minimum density requirement for plug material ?
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Re: No more motion hole

Post by bowl1820 » April 26th, 2018, 11:13 pm

EricHartwell wrote: Short answer, yes but depending on how light a material is used to fill the hole.

Is there a minimum density requirement for plug material ?
looks like theres just a max.

Plugs and Designs
1. Ball plug or slugs may be used for the purpose of re-drilling a ball. When a slug is used, there
must be a hole drilled completely through the slug leaving no void at the base.
2. In all cases, there shall be no interior voids.
3. Plugs and designs must be made of material similar to, although not exactly the same as,
the original material out of which the ball was made. Plugs and designs must comply with
other specifications of a bowling ball.
4. No foreign material may be placed on the outer surface of the ball or in the balance hole, including but not limited to paint, marker or whiteout. Bowling tape is acceptable in a balance
hole.
5. Density may not exceed 1.5 g/mL
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Re: No more motion hole

Post by EricHartwell » April 26th, 2018, 11:33 pm

bowl1820 wrote: looks like theres just a max.

Plugs and Designs
1. Ball plug or slugs may be used for the purpose of re-drilling a ball. When a slug is used, there
must be a hole drilled completely through the slug leaving no void at the base.
2. In all cases, there shall be no interior voids.
3. Plugs and designs must be made of material similar to, although not exactly the same as,
the original material out of which the ball was made. Plugs and designs must comply with
other specifications of a bowling ball.
4. No foreign material may be placed on the outer surface of the ball or in the balance hole, including but not limited to paint, marker or whiteout. Bowling tape is acceptable in a balance
hole.
5. Density may not exceed 1.5 g/mL
So there is a Maximum Density but no minimum . . .
There is going to be some very creative plugging jobs
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Re: No more motion hole

Post by elgavachon » April 27th, 2018, 12:21 am

EricHartwell wrote: Short answer, yes but depending on how light a material is used to fill the hole.

Is there a minimum density requirement for plug material ?
If you could use something really light (messing with the rule about no voids inside of ball) like styrofoam maybe (don't think it has been approved) it might be really similar. Rule does state that plugs and designs must be made of material similar to, although not exactly the same as original material used to make the ball.
Here are a couple of quotes from Mo though which suggest otherwise as far as just drilling and plugging:

"The increase in the gyroscopic inertia by creating a column of air (much less dense than the ball; .013 sg compared to an average of 1.9 sg) near the axis of rotation of the ball causes the ball to retain axis rotation longer."

"Even though the tube is not near the initial axis of rotation it definitely effects it downlane after the axis of rotation has migrated. It's definitely NOT related to statics. Drilling up a ball with much high top weight so it would have the same statics as the drilled ball with the MOtion Hole will roll nowhere near the same as the MOtion Holed ball. Sorry."

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Re: No more motion hole

Post by EricHartwell » April 27th, 2018, 1:07 am

elgavachon wrote:If you could use something really light (messing with the rule about no voids inside of ball) like styrofoam maybe (don't think it has been approved) it might be really similar. Rule does state that plugs and designs must be made of material similar to, although not exactly the same as original material used to make the ball.
I am thinking polyurethane foam, expanding foam insulation.
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Re: No more motion hole

Post by elgavachon » April 27th, 2018, 10:08 pm

EricHartwell wrote: I am thinking polyurethane foam, expanding foam insulation.
Do-able, but just so no one loses their USBC standing or anything thinking that you actually recommend this because they read it on Bowlingchat, we should probably post the approved ball plug list found here:
https://www.bowl.com/Equipment_Specs/Ad ... Ball_Plug/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Product Manufacturer
1-hour Quick Plug Pro's Choice
2-2-1 Lightning Plug Storm Bowling Products, Inc.
2-2-1 Thunder Plug Storm Bowling Products, Inc.
6-hour Quick Plug Pro's Choice
CS Hybrid VISE
Epoxy Liquid Ball Plug Easy-Strike
Everclear Powerhouse
EZ Ball Plug Ultimate Bowling Products
HD Motiv
HR Motiv
Kwik Plug Master Industries, Inc.
M.A.P. (Multi Application Plug) Pro Edge
M.A.P. Black Pro Edge
Matrix Motiv
Polyurethane Liquid Ball Plug Easy-Strike
Pro Plug Brunswick (DBA)
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Re: No more motion hole

Post by crashin12x » April 29th, 2018, 4:43 am

elgavachon wrote: I asked Mo this question, but I cannot find where just yet. I will keep looking. What he told me was to use a drilling angle of 85* and a Val angle of 35* on an asymmetrical ball to try and get the same reaction as the Motion hole on a symmetrical. I don't remmember the exact pin distance, but I remember trying it and using 3 1/4" to 3 3/4" on a lot of balls.
I can't find the thread as well but I knew I have it written in one of my notes and found it 70 x 3 x30 for Asymmetrics
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