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 Post subject: Asym layout question: UPDATE!
 Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:11 pm Post Number: #1 Post
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My wife got her ball from the shop and.........{see pic}....wondering why this is drilled w/ the mass towards her PAP but beyond it by over 2" ??? What reaction would one expect from this?

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Last edited by imagonman on Mon Feb 26, 2018 6:11 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Asym layout question
 Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:17 am Post Number: #2 Post
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Looks like a Pro CG ball.
Its way out of line to the left.
If the shop operator knew what he was doing, it could have been more flare safe.
I hope you didnt pay shop retail for that ball, no way that came from a distributor.

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 Post subject: Re: Asym layout question
 Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:30 am Post Number: #3 Post
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MegaMav wrote:
Looks like a Pro CG ball.
Its way out of line to the left.
If the shop operator knew what he was doing, it could have been more flare safe.
I hope you didnt pay shop retail for that ball, no way that came from a distributor.


Yep, internet purchase by her son who's a no-thumber & then changed his mind on ball weight (it's a 15#) & basically sold it to mom. Pro-cg kicked left 2-1/4" . Just wondering what the effect of this layout is as far as early/late/no hook/roll pattern as opposed to a normal drill w/ the MB MUCH nearer the thumb. I've never seen a MB placed in the axis like this nor do I know what else could've done that's why I ask the experts here! Any thoughts advice etc.????
Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: Asym layout question
 Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:14 am Post Number: #4 Post
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imagonman wrote:

Yep, internet purchase by her son who's a no-thumber & then changed his mind on ball weight (it's a 15#) & basically sold it to mom. Pro-cg kicked left 2-1/4" . Just wondering what the effect of this layout is as far as early/late/no hook/roll pattern as opposed to a normal drill w/ the MB MUCH nearer the thumb. I've never seen a MB placed in the axis like this nor do I know what else could've done that's why I ask the experts here! Any thoughts advice etc.????
Thanks!


Considering the migrating PAP will never cross the pin to spin line, it will never rev up.
I hope the wifey has around 400RPM.
My advice: Change ball drillers and bring it to someone that knows what they're doing for the 2nd drill.

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 Post subject: Re: Asym layout question
 Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:13 am Post Number: #5 Post
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MegaMav wrote:

Considering the migrating PAP will never cross the pin to spin line, it will never rev up.
I hope the wifey has around 400RPM.
My advice: Change ball drillers and bring it to someone that knows what they're doing for the 2nd drill.


400 rpm.....well not quite:) take a look at the video which is 3 different clips combined into 1 video. You tell me what you see???? The last 1 was this weekend, she's wearing the REVS type wrist device in. I don't see any improvement in ball reaction over time.

I was originally thinking of drilling this w/ pin in a leverage position -cg kicked in to grip center -which would put the PSA down around 4:30-5 o'clock next to the thumb. The PSO said go w/ what you see here so I trusted his advice. When I questioned the PSA placement he told me ,"the pin has more influence than the PSA does & could be ignored".
Since then she leaves 5-7,5-10, 2-8-10,8-10 & buckets on what look like decent to deep pocket hits that she carries w/ her Twisted Fury Destruction. This is supposedly a much stronger ball?? What to do?????


Last edited by imagonman on Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:08 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Asym layout question
 Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:51 am Post Number: #6 Post
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IMO, the assertion that the PSA can be safely ignored in the layout is incorrect.
I think you need to find a certified driller.

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 Post subject: Re: Asym layout question
 Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:17 pm Post Number: #7 Post
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imagonman wrote:
"the pin has more influence than the PSA does & could be ignored"


He can be ignored going forward.
Find someone else to do the job right.

The wife's rev rate is somewhere around the Mendoza line (200).
How she throws the ball, im not really certain layout matters.
Low rotation, low tilt is an issue and not good for ball motion.
If shes out there just to have fun, let it go as is, as long as the fit is comfortable.

imagonman wrote:
I was originally thinking of drilling this w/ pin in a leverage position -cg kicked in to grip center -which would put the PSA down around 4:30-5 o'clock next to the thumb.


4:30-5 o'clock is when, not how.

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 Post subject: Re: Asym layout question
 Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:45 pm Post Number: #8 Post
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MegaMav wrote:

He can be ignored going forward.
Find someone else to do the job right.

The wife's rev rate is somewhere around the Mendoza line (200).
How she throws the ball, im not really certain layout matters.
Low rotation, low tilt is an issue and not good for ball motion.
If shes out there just to have fun, let it go as is, as long as the fit is comfortable.



4:30-5 o'clock is when, not how.


Excuse my technical ignorance I don't drill balls or have a Prosect. Just trying to understand. But the PSA would still end up down around the thumbhole nonetheless. What the actual angle would be???? somewhere around 2" right & below thumbhole. So basically this ball is FUBAR as is and presently, if I understand correctly, has a negative Drill angle of approx.-10-15 degrees. No matter that she's not Liz Johnson the drill as is either matters or not. It's either screwed up & needs to be changed or doesn't ? From what I gather here NOone in their right mind would drill a ball w/ a NEGATIVE drill angle????WTF?


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 Post subject: Re: Asym layout question
 Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:54 pm Post Number: #9 Post
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imagonman wrote:
Excuse my technical ignorance I don't drill balls or have a Prosect. Just trying to understand. But the PSA would still end up down around the thumbhole nonetheless. What the actual angle would be???? somewhere around 2" right & below thumbhole. So basically this ball is FUBAR as is and presently, if I understand correctly, has a negative Drill angle of approx.-10-15 degrees. No matter that she's not Liz Johnson the drill as is either matters or not. It's either screwed up & needs to be changed or doesn't ? From what I gather here NOone in their right mind would drill a ball w/ a NEGATIVE drill angle????WTF?


You are correct, but your wife doesnt have enough rotation and tilt at this time to make a layout matter.
If she starts turning the ball properly with more rotation and tilt, this situation would have consequences.
Right now, it does not.

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 Post subject: Re: Asym layout question
 Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:05 pm Post Number: #10 Post
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It's basically drilled similiar as a symmetrical ball for your wife since the PSA is in a rather weak position and helps just a little for more flare (0 degrees or 90 degrees and it isn't helping at all with flare since it is symmetrical measured from your pap) and your wife's rev rate is so low that it probably never reaches the pin to spin line anyways.

A bowling ball always has 2 axises so instead of thinking of it as a -15 degrees you should think of it as similiar to 165 degree.

question for megamav: has the increase of rev rate of the ball when the migrating pap crosses the pin to spin line been proven? I remember a thread where they talked about that that was the theory. Just wondering if further research has been done about it.


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 Post subject: Re: Asym layout question
 Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:39 pm Post Number: #11 Post
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gunso wrote:
I remember a thread where they talked about that that was the theory.


Where did you read that?
I think you are misremembering.

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 Post subject: Re: Asym layout question
 Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:12 pm Post Number: #12 Post
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Not unlikely. Hard to remember every discussion in detail from a few years back


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 Post subject: Re: Asym layout question
 Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 3:44 am Post Number: #13 Post
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imagonman wrote:
My wife got her ball from the shop and.........{see pic}....wondering why this is drilled w/ the mass towards her PAP but beyond it by over 2" ??? What reaction would one expect from this?


I do agree with the fact that you need to go to a different proshop. The driller did you no favors with the layout on this one.

Your wife could benefit with a low flare layout 90-2.5-30.
This will give her some length and continuation to maximize her low tilt and rotation.
If you choose to plug and redrill and the ball rolls over the thumb plug on the backend use a P1 hole to reduce the flare some more to keep it off the plug on the dry flare.

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 Post subject: Re: Asym layout question
 Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 8:08 am Post Number: #14 Post
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or just let flare over the plug. it has minimal effect.


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 Post subject: Re: Asym layout question
 Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:14 pm Post Number: #15 Post
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Looks like the Track Alias "Symmetrical" layout. If the PSA is 6.75" from the thumb, the driller probably borrowed this layout technique from Track.

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 Post subject: Re: Asym layout question
 Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 5:53 pm Post Number: #16 Post
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snick wrote:
Looks like the Track Alias "Symmetrical" layout. If the PSA is 6.75" from the thumb, the driller probably borrowed this layout technique from Track.


I guess my next question would be:
Is this a drilling technique that has been used in the past to achieve a symm from an asym ball or is it something new specifically designed by Track's engineers?
Can/was it used on any asym or only asym's w/ the CG like this one making it a candidate for this layout?


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 Post subject: Re: Asym layout question
 Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:18 pm Post Number: #17 Post
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It was recently developed for the Alias.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7GYMRGYMXw

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 Post subject: Re: Asym layout question
 Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:48 pm Post Number: #18 Post
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Just curious, Being that the ball was a 2nd was the Cg location verified on the scales before drilling?

Also after drilling was it threw on a Determinator to see where the Psa wound up actually being?

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 Post subject: Re: Asym layout question
 Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:51 pm Post Number: #19 Post
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bowl1820 wrote:
Just curious, Being that the ball was a 2nd was the Cg location verified on the scales before drilling?

Also after drilling was it threw on a Determinator to see where the Psa wound up actually being?

Not that I remember so NO on both counts. He doesn't have a Determinator.


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 Post subject: Re: Asym layout question
 Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:53 pm Post Number: #20 Post
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snick wrote:
It was recently developed for the Alias.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7GYMRGYMXw


Then if that's the case that this technique was only recently developed for the Alias core alone per se then I doubt he was replicating that technique idea on this drill as this MM Strategy was drilled back in November 2017.


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