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 Post subject: layout advice for a 77 year old lefty
 Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 7:01 pm Post Number: #1 Post
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I am looking for a THS, short, medium and long sport shots layouts. My specs are in my signature. In another post recently I talked about going back to 14lbs from 13lbs. One of my main problems because of lack of speed is I can't play straight up the outside, which used to be my bread and butter. I want some recommendations on both balls, urethane and reactive and even plastic layouts that don't require extras holes. I used to always have balls with the pins above the finger, with no additional holes and was able to play up the boards on the left side between one and 12. Is it true that pins above the fingers and no extra holes (P1-P4) give more length? Any insight and recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

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Joel Resnick
Hand: Left
PAP: 4 11/16 over 1 up
Speed: 13 off hand
Rev Rate: 200
Axis Tilt: 24
Axis Rotation: 75

No matter what you are trying to do remember simplicity gives better results than over complicating things.


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 Post subject: Re: layout advice for a 77 year old lefty
 Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 7:55 pm Post Number: #2 Post
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Hello sir, would be glad to help. If you post videos, side and back view, maybe I as a coach can help you with your speed. I understand you are 77 years old and I wish that someday I may reach your age and still be bowling (I am only 40) so I will take that into consideration if you decide to post videos for analysis.

Going lighter will definitely help with speed as this will be the consequence of being able to have a smoother swing and approach. The lighter ball can help with this and will also be easier on your muscles, don't try to throw it harder because it's lighter, think smoothnes, proper timing and use your legs which posses the largest muscle groups in your body. Speed will come as a results.

Others more knowledgeable than me, such as Eric Hartwell, can really help you with layouts and ball selection but you need to be open to their recommendations. Balance holes can be very helpful for your game as they account for a high percentage of what determines ball motion.

Balls like the Track Tundra and Track Spare + can be quite useful for low speed/ low rev players who want to play outside although you have a high axis tilt which will help give you length so lets wait and see what Eric recommends.

Stay positive and may you keep on bowling for 25 more years. There's a senior here in PR who is 93 and still drives himself to the AMF here in San Juan and bowls several times a week.


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 Post subject: Re: layout advice for a 77 year old lefty
 Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:29 pm Post Number: #3 Post
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jdrsuper wrote:
I am looking for a THS, short, medium and long sport shots layouts. My specs are in my signature. In another post recently I talked about going back to 14lbs from 13lbs. One of my main problems because of lack of speed is I can't play straight up the outside, which used to be my bread and butter. I want some recommendations on both balls, urethane and reactive and even plastic layouts that don't require extras holes. I used to always have balls with the pins above the finger, with no additional holes and was able to play up the boards on the left side between one and 12. Is it true that pins above the fingers and no extra holes (P1-P4) give more length? Any insight and recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

Are you sticking with 13# equipment or going back up to 14?

Benchmark 80* totals, 1:1.25 Ratio

Asymmetrical Layouts...
Short .............. 35-4.75-65 P2.5
Medium ........... 30-4.5-45 P3
Long ............... 30-5.25-35 P3
THS ................ 55-4.5-45 P2

Symmetrical Layouts (drilling angle to Cg)...
Short .............. 70-4-60 balance hole 1.5" below midline on the VAL
Medium ........... 70-3.5-40 P3
Long ............... Double Thumb layout
THS ................ 80-3-45

I realize I didn't offer layouts without balance holes. I will admit I did not even try to come up with layouts that won't need a balance hole. Your high tilt and high rotation require strong layouts to get your ball into a good roll to carry more strikes.
The balance holes are also required to get the dynamics up to par with their heavier weighted ones.

I did give you layouts as you requested. Short, med., and long sport and a THS layout. The sport layouts are almost impossible to drill without balance holes.
This is what you wanted.
Not necessarily what you need.

I suggest a 6 ball set to cover the variety of conditions you really want to cover, I don't usually give out ball recommendations, but, I have done a bit of research on 13#'ers and I do plan on being a slower speed bowler in my future. And I don't know what your favorite color is.
From what is offered today, My ultimate 6 ball 13# set would include some of these ...

1. Asym for long oil .................... Radical Tremendous, Storm sure Lock
2. Asym for med oil .................... Storm Code Red, Radical Tremendous Pearl
3. Benchmark ............................ Brunswick King Pin, Ebonite Cyclone
4. Long and Strong ..................... Storm HyRoad Pearl or Code Black
5. dry lane Urethane ................... Blue Hammer, Roto Grip Hot Cell, Brunswick True Motion
6. Spare ball, super dry ............... Track Spare+, Hammer Widow Spare

By all means not a complete list. I just wanted to show some of the available 13#'ers that have cores plenty strong enough to work with.

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Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand


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 Post subject: Re: layout advice for a 77 year old lefty
 Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 7:48 am Post Number: #4 Post
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TonyPR wrote:
Hello sir, would be glad to help. If you post videos, side and back view, maybe I as a coach can help you with your speed. I understand you are 77 years old and I wish that someday I may reach your age and still be bowling (I am only 40) so I will take that into consideration if you decide to post videos for analysis.

Going lighter will definitely help with speed as this will be the consequence of being able to have a smoother swing and approach. The lighter ball can help with this and will also be easier on your muscles, don't try to throw it harder because it's lighter, think smoothnes, proper timing and use your legs which posses the largest muscle groups in your body. Speed will come as a results.

Others more knowledgeable than me, such as Eric Hartwell, can really help you with layouts and ball selection but you need to be open to their recommendations. Balance holes can be very helpful for your game as they account for a high percentage of what determines ball motion.

Balls like the Track Tundra and Track Spare + can be quite useful for low speed/ low rev players who
want to play outside although you have a high axis tilt which will help give you length so lets wait and see what Eric recommends.

Thanks for the info Tony and I'll try to get some video of myself and post it in the near future.

Stay positive and may you keep on bowling for 25 more years. There's a senior here in PR who is 93 and still drives himself to the AMF here in San Juan and bowls several times a week.

_________________
Joel Resnick
Hand: Left
PAP: 4 11/16 over 1 up
Speed: 13 off hand
Rev Rate: 200
Axis Tilt: 24
Axis Rotation: 75

No matter what you are trying to do remember simplicity gives better results than over complicating things.


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 Post subject: Re: layout advice for a 77 year old lefty
 Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 7:51 am Post Number: #5 Post
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EricHartwell wrote:
Are you sticking with 13# equipment or going back up to 14?

Benchmark 80* totals, 1:1.25 Ratio

Asymmetrical Layouts...
Short .............. 35-4.75-65 P2.5
Medium ........... 30-4.5-45 P3
Long ............... 30-5.25-35 P3
THS ................ 55-4.5-45 P2

Symmetrical Layouts (drilling angle to Cg)...
Short .............. 70-4-60 balance hole 1.5" below midline on the VAL
Medium ........... 70-3.5-40 P3
Long ............... Double Thumb layout
THS ................ 80-3-45

I realize I didn't offer layouts without balance holes. I will admit I did not even try to come up with layouts that won't need a balance hole. Your high tilt and high rotation require strong layouts to get your ball into a good roll to carry more strikes.
The balance holes are also required to get the dynamics up to par with their heavier weighted ones.

I did give you layouts as you requested. Short, med., and long sport and a THS layout. The sport layouts are almost impossible to drill without balance holes.
This is what you wanted.
Not necessarily what you need.

I suggest a 6 ball set to cover the variety of conditions you really want to cover, I don't usually give out ball recommendations, but, I have done a bit of research on 13#'ers and I do plan on being a slower speed bowler in my future. And I don't know what your favorite color is.
From what is offered today, My ultimate 6 ball 13# set would include some of these ...

1. Asym for long oil .................... Radical Tremendous, Storm sure Lock
2. Asym for med oil .................... Storm Code Red, Radical Tremendous Pearl
3. Benchmark ............................ Brunswick King Pin, Ebonite Cyclone
4. Long and Strong ..................... Storm HyRoad Pearl or Code Black
5. dry lane Urethane ................... Blue Hammer, Roto Grip Hot Cell, Brunswick True Motion
6. Spare ball, super dry ............... Track Spare+, Hammer Widow Spare

By all means not a complete list. I just wanted to show some of the available 13#'ers that have cores plenty strong enough to work with.


Eric,
Thanks for all the info and help. Since I still have some 14lb balls I am planning to try them and decide whether I go 13 or 14. if I decide on 14lb would the layouts change. Fortunately I have a 13 lb Storm sure lock, Ebonite cyclone, Blue Hammer, Hammer widow spare and a 14LB Track Spare plus. I have never plugged any of them so I could plug and use the 13lbs per your recommendations. One last question, was my assumption correct that pin above the fingers will give me more length. I ask this because all the 13lbs mentioned above I can't play from the outside, so I stand 25 and try to go no further left than 12 at the breakpoint. Playing outside i cross over to the right pocket or hit high.

_________________
Joel Resnick
Hand: Left
PAP: 4 11/16 over 1 up
Speed: 13 off hand
Rev Rate: 200
Axis Tilt: 24
Axis Rotation: 75

No matter what you are trying to do remember simplicity gives better results than over complicating things.


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 Post subject: Re: layout advice for a 77 year old lefty
 Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:56 am Post Number: #6 Post
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Just because the pin is above the fingers does not mean it will go longer.
Also pin above the fingers is a very vague description of a layout.

_________________
Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand


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 Post subject: Re: layout advice for a 77 year old lefty
 Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 12:25 am Post Number: #7 Post
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EricHartwell wrote:
Just because the pin is above the fingers does not mean it will go longer.
Also pin above the fingers is a very vague description of a layout.


Eric,
Since my knowledge of today's balls and layouts are not adequate, I'll defer to you about additional holes and the fact that just because the pin is above the fingers doesn't necessarily equate to the ball going longer. If I decide after testing 13 versus 14 to go to 14, would that change your layout recommendations, also since I want to go back to playing outside was that taken into consideration in your layouts. Thanks again for your help and as I said my education about the modern game of bowling is woefully inadequate. As I said to Tony I'll try to post a video of my release and I'm sure I hit up on a ball (old school).

_________________
Joel Resnick
Hand: Left
PAP: 4 11/16 over 1 up
Speed: 13 off hand
Rev Rate: 200
Axis Tilt: 24
Axis Rotation: 75

No matter what you are trying to do remember simplicity gives better results than over complicating things.


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 Post subject: Re: layout advice for a 77 year old lefty
 Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 5:46 am Post Number: #8 Post
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I would evaluate each ball you buy How you want it to fit with your existing and how it fits with the recommendations I have given regardless if you go 14 or 13 pounds.
It is one thing for me to give a list of layouts but another when you start matching balls up to these layouts or positions in an arsenal.
My layout lists are starting points and I expect them to be adjusted once ball purchases are made.

_________________
Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand


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