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 Post subject: Layout suggestions for a friend
 Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 3:30 pm Post Number: #1 Post
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Bowler is right handed
24*tilt
80* rotation
14-15 mph on monitor
3-1/2" by 1/4" up
300rpm

Bowling on typical house shot with synthetic lanes. Looking for benchmark and control layouts for both syms and asymmetrical.

GO!

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 Post subject: Re: Layout suggestions for a friend
 Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 8:01 pm Post Number: #2 Post
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Lledsmarttam wrote:
Bowler is right handed
24*tilt
80* rotation
14-15 mph on monitor
3-1/2" by 1/4" up
300rpm

Bowling on typical house shot with synthetic lanes. Looking for benchmark and control layouts for both syms and asymmetrical.

GO!

Matched speed to revs but speed dominant because of high tilt and rotation.
Sweetspot 80* Totals, 1:1.75 Ratio

Asymmetrical Layouts
Midlane ..................... 20-5-40 P3
Benchmark ................ 30-4.5-50 Pin in the middle finger
Control ...................... 30-4-70

Symmetrical Layouts
Totally Strong ............ Double Thumb layout
Benchmark ................ 35-3.5-45 Pin in ring finger balance hole 2" below midline on the VAL
Control ...................... 35-4-70 balance hole 2" below midline on the VAL

Chances are your friend will want something stronger than a Benchmark on fresh conditions so I added the Asymmetrical Midlane layout and Symmetrical totally strong layouts to the lists.

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Eric Hartwell

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PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
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 Post subject: Re: Layout suggestions for a friend
 Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 9:57 pm Post Number: #3 Post
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Thanks for the reply Eric. All his current equipment is drilled around 60x4x35 within 5-10 degrees. All on symmetrical equipment. Just looking for something closer to benchmark instead of long and strong which is what current layouts would be close to.

One other question I have is when going with long and strong do you still add the .5 ratio from the drill angle? So that ratio for him would be 1.5;1.75 for the ratio?

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PAP-5 1/16 by 3/4 up
Speed-16mph on monitor
Rev-325rpm
Tilt-10*
Rotation-70*-90*


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 Post subject: Re: Layout suggestions for a friend
 Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 6:47 am Post Number: #4 Post
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Long and Strong would be 1:1.25 Ratio 100* Totals
45-4.5-55 Asymmetrical
50-3.5-50 P3 Symmetrical

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Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand


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 Post subject: Re: Layout suggestions for a friend
 Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 1:32 pm Post Number: #5 Post
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Hi Eric,

Is it because of the bowler's high AT and AR, you suggested P3 to mid lane layout (asym) and long & strong layout (sym)?

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Adrian

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PAP: 5 5/8 up 3/4
Speed: 14 mph off hand
Rev: 300 RPM
Axis tilt: 15*
Axis rotation: 60*


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 Post subject: Re: Layout suggestions for a friend
 Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 4:34 pm Post Number: #6 Post
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ads wrote:
Hi Eric,

Is it because of the bowler's high AT and AR, you suggested P3 to mid lane layout (asym) and long & strong layout (sym)?

Yes, with the idea of having a smaller drilling angle to get the ball to read the lanes sooner to burn up the tilt and rotation.

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Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand


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 Post subject: Re: Layout suggestions for a friend
 Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 4:58 pm Post Number: #7 Post
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EricHartwell wrote:
Long and Strong would be 1:1.25 Ratio 100* Totals
45-4.5-55 Asymmetrical
50-3.5-50 P3 Symmetrical


So then are his current layouts completely out of his range? None have p-holes and all are syms.

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Speed-16mph on monitor
Rev-325rpm
Tilt-10*
Rotation-70*-90*


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 Post subject: Re: Layout suggestions for a friend
 Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 8:21 pm Post Number: #8 Post
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Lledsmarttam wrote:

So then are his current layouts completely out of his range? None have p-holes and all are syms.

What balls and layouts and surfaces is he using?
Without balance holes most everything is going to be considered long making him try to hook the ball rather than just rolling it.

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Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand


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 Post subject: Re: Layout suggestions for a friend
 Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 8:43 pm Post Number: #9 Post
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Game breaker 2......60x4x32........2000A w/ compound

These other balls not 100% on layouts as not measured. Just eyeballed close to known layout for pin and cg placement. Surface unknown on others but assume factory
Game breaker original
Einstein
Game breaker phenom

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 Post subject: Re: Layout suggestions for a friend
 Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 9:49 pm Post Number: #10 Post
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The Einstein is an Asym.
Nothing wrong with the Symmetricals for his specs. They actually burn tilt sooner than Asyms.
Strong balance holes to lower the drilling angle would help his reaction with them. Dull wurface would also help.

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Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand


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 Post subject: Re: Layout suggestions for a friend
 Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 11:16 pm Post Number: #11 Post
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Yes Einstein is an assym my bad. He hardly ever pulls this ball from his bag. For the symmetricals what would they be considered as far as benchmark, control , long and strong?

Just looking at where to go with new layout. He says these balls/layouts hook too much for him after 1-2 games on fresh. Looking for a step or 2 down from these for an assym.

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PAP-5 1/16 by 3/4 up
Speed-16mph on monitor
Rev-325rpm
Tilt-10*
Rotation-70*-90*


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 Post subject: Re: Layout suggestions for a friend
 Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 3:03 am Post Number: #12 Post
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Lledsmarttam wrote:
Yes Einstein is an assym my bad. He hardly ever pulls this ball from his bag. For the symmetricals what would they be considered as far as benchmark, control , long and strong?

Just looking at where to go with new layout. He says these balls/layouts hook too much for him after 1-2 games on fresh. Looking for a step or 2 down from these for an assym.

I would need to know his PAP and measure the layouts.
Coverstrength is dominating his ball motion in the later games. Most newer Asyms today are strong covered balls

He is rolling balls with estimated high ratio layouts. Actually higher than what the Long and Strong layout should be for him.
Does he move properly on the lane or looking for something that he can stay in the same area on the lane?

Is he buying a new ball and you are trying to get it to compliment the old one?

For a new ball I would get something drilled to Benchmark 1000-2000 grit surface and use a shiny surface on the Gambreakers for the later games.

Another option could be plugging and redrilling his 3 balls setting them up as high, medium and Low Ratio drillings and adjust the surfaces having the low ratio dull, medium ratio matte and the high ratio the shiny one if you are just estimating things.

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Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand


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 Post subject: Re: Layout suggestions for a friend
 Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 3:22 am Post Number: #13 Post
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EricHartwell wrote:
I would need to know his PAP and measure the layouts.
Coverstrength is dominating his ball motion in the later games. Most newer Asyms today are strong covered balls

He is rolling balls with estimated high ratio layouts. Actually higher than what the Long and Strong layout should be for him.
Does he move properly on the lane or looking for something that he can stay in the same area on the lane?

Is he buying a new ball and you are trying to get it to compliment the old one?


For a new ball I would get something drilled to Benchmark 1000-2000 grit surface and use a shiny surface on the Gambreakers for the later games.

Another option could be plugging and redrilling his 3 balls setting them up as high, medium and Low Ratio drillings and adjust the surfaces having the low ratio dull, medium ratio matte and the high ratio the shiny one if you are just estimating things.



Ok I guess my thought was kind of the opposite. I was going to suggest to him to get a Strong assym with a low track control drilling, 30x5.25x60 as suggested in radical drill sheet for low track players.

Yes he is planning on getting a new ball.

My thought was allowing him to play further right to start and not ending up to far left and out of his comfort zone so to speak. What is your opinion on my analysis based on the information I provided this far?

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PAP-5 1/16 by 3/4 up
Speed-16mph on monitor
Rev-325rpm
Tilt-10*
Rotation-70*-90*


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 Post subject: Re: Layout suggestions for a friend
 Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 4:15 am Post Number: #14 Post
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Lledsmarttam wrote:


Ok I guess my thought was kind of the opposite. I was going to suggest to him to get a Strong assym with a low track control drilling, 30x5.25x60 as suggested in radical drill sheet for low track players.

Yes he is planning on getting a new ball.

My thought was allowing him to play further right to start and not ending up to far left and out of his comfort zone so to speak. What is your opinion on my analysis based on the information I provided this far?

I don't use the manufacturer's drill sheets.

He is struggling in the late games. Getting a new, stronger covered ball isn't necessarily going to help that.

His existing arsenal is not tuned for his release. Even getting a new ball the existing should be re-done to match his release. For the price of 1 ball he could get all 3 plugged and re-drilled and have a really good 3 ball set. Then evaluate what he really needs at that point.

You've estimated existing layout. unknown on the other 2

You didn't say why he doesn't use the Einstein.

You haven't said anything about adjusting coverstocks on the existing being an option to help him better match up.

Having a Control drilling in his arsenal is a good idea, yes. Especially for Typical House Shots

Sounds to me like he wants something weaker/longer for the late games.
Is he a friend or a customer?

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Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand


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 Post subject: Re: Layout suggestions for a friend
 Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 5:27 am Post Number: #15 Post
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He is a friend.

_________________
-Knowledge is power-
PAP-5 1/16 by 3/4 up
Speed-16mph on monitor
Rev-325rpm
Tilt-10*
Rotation-70*-90*


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