Board index » Mo & Friends » Ball & Layout Advice




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Flare over motion hole
 Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 5:17 pm Post Number: #1 Post
Offline
Member

Joined: November 21, 2014
Posts: 653
Location: Hong Kong
Reputation: 17
Reputation Power: 1
Re-drilled Storm Optimus Solid for motion hole. 115*3 3/4*60, PIN next to RF and CG is right in the middle of centre grip line, only 1oz top weight left and the other static weights are close to 0.

Put a tape at 10 inches from the PIN and rolled it on lane. Ball flared over the tape. Where should I punch the hole? Move right 1.5" (perpendicular to the line extended from the PIN ) or move down the line 1" and then go right 1"?

Without the hole, the ball roll up very soon, hook long and very direct. Lay down @10th board, break 6/7 @40 feet.


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

_________________
Adrian
Right handed
PAP: 5 1/8 up 3/4
Speed: 15.5 mph (Kegel Specto)
Rev: 350 RPM
Axis tilt: 18-20*
Axis rotation: 60*


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Flare over motion hole
 Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 6:28 pm Post Number: #2 Post
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: August 11, 2014
Posts: 564
Reputation: 83
Reputation Power: 1
There is some good advice and discussion in this thread, or you can jump to my approach.

Basically, people are shifting the hole to avoid the track flare and pitching to maintain static weights. Moving the hole along the line from the pin +/- seems to be the recommendation.

Start with the 3/4" hole and see what you think. In at least one case, I enlarged it and thought the reaction was better with the smaller diameter hole. Will plug and retry.

Steve

_________________
18-19 mph (15.5-16.5 on monitor), 375 rpm, PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8 up, AT: 12*, AR: 45*


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Flare over motion hole
 Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 3:29 am Post Number: #3 Post
Offline
Member

Joined: November 21, 2014
Posts: 653
Location: Hong Kong
Reputation: 17
Reputation Power: 1
stevespo wrote:
There is some good advice and discussion in this thread, or you can jump to my approach.

Basically, people are shifting the hole to avoid the track flare and pitching to maintain static weights. Moving the hole along the line from the pin +/- seems to be the recommendation.

Start with the 3/4" hole and see what you think. In at least one case, I enlarged it and thought the reaction was better with the smaller diameter hole. Will plug and retry.

Steve



Thanks Steve.

The 1st oil ring draws across the centre of the 10" hole. To provide room for the biggest possible hole 1 1/4 when necessary, I need to pull the hole further down the line for at least 1" (i.e., 11"). Would you also suggest 0.5" to the right in my case?

_________________
Adrian
Right handed
PAP: 5 1/8 up 3/4
Speed: 15.5 mph (Kegel Specto)
Rev: 350 RPM
Axis tilt: 18-20*
Axis rotation: 60*


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Flare over motion hole
 Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:43 am Post Number: #4 Post
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: August 11, 2014
Posts: 564
Reputation: 83
Reputation Power: 1
That sounds reasonable to me, and I've moved them to the right as well as along the MB/pin line. Pitch the hole to make the statics work and compensate for the adjusted placement.

Steve

_________________
18-19 mph (15.5-16.5 on monitor), 375 rpm, PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8 up, AT: 12*, AR: 45*


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Flare over motion hole
 Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:21 am Post Number: #5 Post
Offline
BCU Graduate Layouts
User avatar

Joined: June 5, 2010
Posts: 885
Reputation: 79
Reputation Power: 1
If my memory is right I think Mo said keep it 10" from pin and move it 1.25" from first track flare.

_________________
* MPH @ aarows
* RPM
AR *
AT *
PAP 3 3/4"
(* rebuilding)

“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.”
― Neil deGrasse Tyson


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Flare over motion hole
 Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:16 am Post Number: #6 Post
Offline
Member

Joined: November 21, 2014
Posts: 653
Location: Hong Kong
Reputation: 17
Reputation Power: 1
The final position is 11" from pin and 1" right, 3/4” large with 1/2 ” pitch.Top weight now is 2.5.

Before the hole, the ball, Optimus Solid, 1000 surface, rolled up very soon and went straight to the pocket with small right to left back end motion.

After the 3/4 hole, a more noticeable backend motion but still small move. The issue may be because the ball rolls up too soon. Tried 2000, 4000 grit, better but need to play deeper than normal. Overall, still a smooth motion.

Wanna try 7/8" or larger but the top weight is already 2.5.

_________________
Adrian
Right handed
PAP: 5 1/8 up 3/4
Speed: 15.5 mph (Kegel Specto)
Rev: 350 RPM
Axis tilt: 18-20*
Axis rotation: 60*


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Flare over motion hole
 Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:37 am Post Number: #7 Post
Online
BCU Graduate Layouts
User avatar

Joined: April 4, 2011
Posts: 3318
Location: Michigan
Reputation: 295
Reputation Power: 3
ads wrote:
The final position is 11" from pin and 1" right, 3/4” large with 1/2 ” pitch.Top weight now is 2.5.

Before the hole, the ball, Optimus Solid, 1000 surface, rolled up very soon and went straight to the pocket with small right to left back end motion.

After the 3/4 hole, a more noticeable backend motion but still small move. The issue may be because the ball rolls up too soon. Tried 2000, 4000 grit, better but need to play deeper than normal. Overall, still a smooth motion.

Wanna try 7/8" or larger but the top weight is already 2.5.

You can always drill the fingers or thumb deeper to balance out the top weight.

_________________
Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Flare over motion hole
 Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 5:20 am Post Number: #8 Post
Offline
Member

Joined: November 21, 2014
Posts: 653
Location: Hong Kong
Reputation: 17
Reputation Power: 1
EricHartwell wrote:
You can always drill the fingers or thumb deeper to balance out the top weight.


Using ST, the only option is fingers.

_________________
Adrian
Right handed
PAP: 5 1/8 up 3/4
Speed: 15.5 mph (Kegel Specto)
Rev: 350 RPM
Axis tilt: 18-20*
Axis rotation: 60*


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Flare over motion hole
 Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 11:39 am Post Number: #9 Post
Offline
Member

Joined: November 21, 2014
Posts: 653
Location: Hong Kong
Reputation: 17
Reputation Power: 1
Re-sanded the ball 500-2000-4000 (from 500-1000-2000). The ball was shiny and skid a bit more but still rolled very early; just a small turn in the mid lane and then roll straight forward .

Is it because of (115*3 3/4*60)
1. The coverstock
2. The dual angle layout
3. Size of Motion Hole, 3/4" currently

I am thinking if I should try pin over instead of next to ring finger though my PAP is longer than 5".

_________________
Adrian
Right handed
PAP: 5 1/8 up 3/4
Speed: 15.5 mph (Kegel Specto)
Rev: 350 RPM
Axis tilt: 18-20*
Axis rotation: 60*


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Flare over motion hole
 Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 4:54 pm Post Number: #10 Post
Offline
Member

Joined: August 7, 2017
Posts: 95
Location: Lake Geneva WI
Reputation: 0
Reputation Power: 1
ads wrote:
Re-sanded the ball 500-2000-4000 (from 500-1000-2000). The ball was shiny and skid a bit more but still rolled very early; just a small turn in the mid lane and then roll straight forward .

Is it because of (115*3 3/4*60)
1. The coverstock
2. The dual angle layout
3. Size of Motion Hole, 3/4" currently

I am thinking if I should try pin over instead of next to ring finger though my PAP is longer than 5".


In my opinion I think it's rolling early for you because of your rev dominance.
If your stats are correct 14mph off hand and 300rpm. This is a pretty heavy rev dominance if you look at the chart provided in the wiki.
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong

_________________
-Knowledge is power-
PAP-5 1/16 by 3/4 up
Speed-16mph on monitor
Rev-325rpm
Tilt-10*
Rotation-70*-90*


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Flare over motion hole
 Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 5:29 am Post Number: #11 Post
Offline
Member

Joined: November 21, 2014
Posts: 653
Location: Hong Kong
Reputation: 17
Reputation Power: 1
Lledsmarttam wrote:

In my opinion I think it's rolling early for you because of your rev dominance.
If your stats are correct 14mph off hand and 300rpm. This is a pretty heavy rev dominance if you look at the chart provided in the wiki.
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong



Thanks. The spec was measured a year ago. The speed could be between 14-15 mph.

From what I observed from the lane, I am not that much rev dominant, slightly more rev than general house bowler. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2Dye6CuKSE

My guess is the PAP-PIN distance. 3 3/4 may be too strong for my AT and AR.

_________________
Adrian
Right handed
PAP: 5 1/8 up 3/4
Speed: 15.5 mph (Kegel Specto)
Rev: 350 RPM
Axis tilt: 18-20*
Axis rotation: 60*


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Flare over motion hole
 Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 3:15 am Post Number: #12 Post
Offline
Member

Joined: August 7, 2017
Posts: 95
Location: Lake Geneva WI
Reputation: 0
Reputation Power: 1
Your speed is listed off your hand. If that's the case then yes you are rev dominant.

Now if that is speed the monitor says then yes you are much closer to being matched.

_________________
-Knowledge is power-
PAP-5 1/16 by 3/4 up
Speed-16mph on monitor
Rev-325rpm
Tilt-10*
Rotation-70*-90*


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Flare over motion hole
 Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:32 am Post Number: #13 Post
Offline
Member

Joined: November 21, 2014
Posts: 653
Location: Hong Kong
Reputation: 17
Reputation Power: 1
Increased the hole to 7/8". Way better and a very noticeable backend motion even with 4000 grit.

_________________
Adrian
Right handed
PAP: 5 1/8 up 3/4
Speed: 15.5 mph (Kegel Specto)
Rev: 350 RPM
Axis tilt: 18-20*
Axis rotation: 60*


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
 
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 

Board index » Mo & Friends » Ball & Layout Advice


 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: