40 tilt 70 rot Track Cyborg & Radical Cash layouts

Which layout is right for me?

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jannepalo
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Positive Axis Point: 6 over 1/16 down
Speed: 17
Rev Rate: 425
Axis Tilt: 8
Axis Rotation: 70
Heavy Oil Ball: Morich Frenzy
Medium Oil Ball: Quantum Black, Magnitude 035
Light Oil Ball: Fanatic BTU, RackAttack Pearl, Black Urethane, Columbia Jazz
Preferred Company: Brunswick
Location: Seinäjoki Finland

40 tilt 70 rot Track Cyborg & Radical Cash layouts

Post by jannepalo »

Hi!
I have not drilled many Track balls before and the bowlers has challenging specs.
Track Cyborg
--> http://www.trackbowling.com/products/balls/upper-mid-performance/cyborg
--> Link to bowlers specs
--> Couble videos taken few months back when throwing guru master 45/3/50

In the second link you find the image that has the layout that I have been planning on.
Bowlers specs are 40 tilt , 70 rotation, 17mph offhand, 235 rpm.
The lanes he bowls on are New Brunswick Pro lanes.
He wants this ball for fresh easy THS.

Im thinking 25/5,25/60 and P3-P4 if necessary
Last edited by jannepalo on November 25th, 2017, 7:53 am, edited 2 times in total.
Janne Palo
ProShop Operator / Bowling Center Staff
Bowling Center Seinäjoki, Finland
ETBF level 1 ProShop Driller / Manager
B.E. Automation. Seinäjoki University of Applied Sciences.
Stats:
PAP 6 over 1/16 down
17 mph
425 rpm
Rotation 70
Tilt 8 dg
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EricHartwell
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Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
Speed: 16 off hand
Rev Rate: 330
Axis Tilt: 12
Axis Rotation: 45
Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
Medium Oil Ball: EVO pearl, True Motion, Columbia Command, DV8 Intimidator
Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer
Location: Michigan

Re: 40 tilt 70 rot Track Cyborg layout

Post by EricHartwell »

.007 mass bias rating is basically a Symmetrical.
You will most Definitely want a P4 balance hole equal to or larger than the thumb hole.
Without a balance hole it will be a low flare symmetrical layout ~80-5.25-62,5
Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
Arkansas
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Positive Axis Point: 4 1/2 Left x 3/4 Up
Speed: 18.5 off Hand
Rev Rate: 350
Axis Tilt: 17
Axis Rotation: 55
Heavy Oil Ball: Guru Mighty
Medium Oil Ball: Guru
Light Oil Ball: Torrid Affair
Preferred Company: Radical

Re: 40 tilt 70 rot Track Cyborg layout

Post by Arkansas »

jannepalo wrote:Hi!
I have not drilled many Track balls before and the bowlers has challenging specs.
Track Cyborg
--> http://www.trackbowling.com/products/balls/upper-mid-performance/cyborg
--> Link to bowlers specs
--> Couble videos taken few months back when throwing guru master 45/3/50

In the second link you find the image that has the layout that I have been planning on.
Bowlers specs are 40 tilt , 70 rotation, 17mph offhand, 235 rpm.
The lanes he bowls on are New Brunswick Pro lanes.
He wants this ball for fresh easy THS.

Im thinking 25/5,25/60 and P3-P4 if necessary
Sounds like a perfect candidate for a double thumb layout. The ball has good specs for it too.
James Talley
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EricHartwell
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Posts: 4080
Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
Speed: 16 off hand
Rev Rate: 330
Axis Tilt: 12
Axis Rotation: 45
Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
Medium Oil Ball: EVO pearl, True Motion, Columbia Command, DV8 Intimidator
Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer
Location: Michigan

Re: 40 tilt 70 rot Track Cyborg layout

Post by EricHartwell »

Arkansas wrote: Sounds like a perfect candidate for a double thumb layout. The ball has good specs for it too.
Unfortunately the Cg is at least 1" left of the line from Pin to Mass Bias.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B18M6x ... RrTlk/view

With the short horizontal PAP component the base layout for the Double Thumb layout will put the Cg left of grip center. Also the request is for an easy THS shot, the Double Thumb layout will be way too strong imo.
Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
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Dustin
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Re: 40 tilt 70 rot Track Cyborg layout

Post by Dustin »

Here is a topic on Modified Double Thumb layouts.
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=9320&hilit
* MPH @ aarows
* RPM
AR *
AT *
PAP 3 3/4"
(* rebuilding)

“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.”
― Neil deGrasse Tyson
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EricHartwell
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Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
Speed: 16 off hand
Rev Rate: 330
Axis Tilt: 12
Axis Rotation: 45
Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
Medium Oil Ball: EVO pearl, True Motion, Columbia Command, DV8 Intimidator
Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer
Location: Michigan

Re: 40 tilt 70 rot Track Cyborg layout

Post by EricHartwell »

Modified Double Thumb layout for this bowler would be ~30-4-30 P4

Cut and pasted from Track's website...
Our new QR-7 Hybrid cover has a lot of familiarities in chemical composition with our QR-9 covers used on the highly successful Paradox line. This cover is perfect for those looking for strong overall hooking power on medium to heavy oil patterns.

I think jannepalo has it right with the 25-5.25-62,5 for the itended use on an easy house shot. But to make it work a P4 balance hole will be needed to create the Asymmetry needed to be a successful layout.
Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
User avatar
jannepalo
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Member
Posts: 46
Joined: December 14th, 2015, 10:32 pm
Positive Axis Point: 6 over 1/16 down
Speed: 17
Rev Rate: 425
Axis Tilt: 8
Axis Rotation: 70
Heavy Oil Ball: Morich Frenzy
Medium Oil Ball: Quantum Black, Magnitude 035
Light Oil Ball: Fanatic BTU, RackAttack Pearl, Black Urethane, Columbia Jazz
Preferred Company: Brunswick
Location: Seinäjoki Finland

Re: 40 tilt 70 rot Track Cyborg layout

Post by jannepalo »

We went with the layout I was thinking and the ball was nice after adding little surface. He still uses the ball on ths.
Now he needs a ball for league that would work in heavy oil. I have been thinking Radical Fix with 35/3,75/30.
Janne Palo
ProShop Operator / Bowling Center Staff
Bowling Center Seinäjoki, Finland
ETBF level 1 ProShop Driller / Manager
B.E. Automation. Seinäjoki University of Applied Sciences.
Stats:
PAP 6 over 1/16 down
17 mph
425 rpm
Rotation 70
Tilt 8 dg
User avatar
EricHartwell
Trusted Source
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Posts: 4080
Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
Speed: 16 off hand
Rev Rate: 330
Axis Tilt: 12
Axis Rotation: 45
Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
Medium Oil Ball: EVO pearl, True Motion, Columbia Command, DV8 Intimidator
Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer
Location: Michigan

Re: 40 tilt 70 rot Track Cyborg layout

Post by EricHartwell »

jannepalo wrote:We went with the layout I was thinking and the ball was nice after adding little surface. He still uses the ball on ths.
Now he needs a ball for league that would work in heavy oil. I have been thinking Radical Fix with 35/3,75/30.
You are going to need a VERY long pin to Cg. Close to 5"
You will also want less than 3 oz top weight.

If the ball specs are not optimum I would consider (drilling angle to Cg)50-3-50 balance hole 2" below midline on the VAL.
This is a pin the the ring finger layout.
Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
User avatar
jannepalo
Member
Member
Posts: 46
Joined: December 14th, 2015, 10:32 pm
Positive Axis Point: 6 over 1/16 down
Speed: 17
Rev Rate: 425
Axis Tilt: 8
Axis Rotation: 70
Heavy Oil Ball: Morich Frenzy
Medium Oil Ball: Quantum Black, Magnitude 035
Light Oil Ball: Fanatic BTU, RackAttack Pearl, Black Urethane, Columbia Jazz
Preferred Company: Brunswick
Location: Seinäjoki Finland

Re: 40 tilt 70 rot Track Cyborg & Radical Fix layouts

Post by jannepalo »

I really would like to go with something stronger. What would be the current -go to- ball in Brunswick/DV8/Radical line for high tilt bowler?
Janne Palo
ProShop Operator / Bowling Center Staff
Bowling Center Seinäjoki, Finland
ETBF level 1 ProShop Driller / Manager
B.E. Automation. Seinäjoki University of Applied Sciences.
Stats:
PAP 6 over 1/16 down
17 mph
425 rpm
Rotation 70
Tilt 8 dg
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MegaMav
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Joined: April 27th, 2007, 5:00 am
THS Average: 225
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Positive Axis Point: 5.5 Over & 1 Up
Speed: 16.0 MPH - Camera
Rev Rate: 375
Axis Tilt: 14
Axis Rotation: 45
Heavy Oil Ball: Radical - Informer
Medium Oil Ball: Brunswick - Fearless
Light Oil Ball: Radical - Bonus Pearl
Preferred Company: Radical Bowling Technologies
Location: Malta, NY

Re: 40 tilt 70 rot Track Cyborg & Radical Fix layouts

Post by MegaMav »

jannepalo wrote:I really would like to go with something stronger. What would be the current -go to- ball in Brunswick/DV8/Radical line for high tilt bowler?
Look for balls with High INT Diff to transition the ball faster.
Stronger covers help too.

Cash, More Cash, Katana
User avatar
jannepalo
Member
Member
Posts: 46
Joined: December 14th, 2015, 10:32 pm
Positive Axis Point: 6 over 1/16 down
Speed: 17
Rev Rate: 425
Axis Tilt: 8
Axis Rotation: 70
Heavy Oil Ball: Morich Frenzy
Medium Oil Ball: Quantum Black, Magnitude 035
Light Oil Ball: Fanatic BTU, RackAttack Pearl, Black Urethane, Columbia Jazz
Preferred Company: Brunswick
Location: Seinäjoki Finland

Re: 40 tilt 70 rot Track Cyborg & Radical Fix layouts

Post by jannepalo »

MegaMav wrote:
Look for balls with High INT Diff to transition the ball faster.
Stronger covers help too.

Cash, More Cash, Katana
I ordered the Cash from our importer. I got one with 3-4" pin.
Im thinking 35/4,75/35 with this one.
>>PICTURE<<
Janne Palo
ProShop Operator / Bowling Center Staff
Bowling Center Seinäjoki, Finland
ETBF level 1 ProShop Driller / Manager
B.E. Automation. Seinäjoki University of Applied Sciences.
Stats:
PAP 6 over 1/16 down
17 mph
425 rpm
Rotation 70
Tilt 8 dg
User avatar
MegaMav
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 4694
Joined: April 27th, 2007, 5:00 am
THS Average: 225
Sport Average: 200
Positive Axis Point: 5.5 Over & 1 Up
Speed: 16.0 MPH - Camera
Rev Rate: 375
Axis Tilt: 14
Axis Rotation: 45
Heavy Oil Ball: Radical - Informer
Medium Oil Ball: Brunswick - Fearless
Light Oil Ball: Radical - Bonus Pearl
Preferred Company: Radical Bowling Technologies
Location: Malta, NY

Re: 40 tilt 70 rot Track Cyborg & Radical Fix layouts

Post by MegaMav »

jannepalo wrote:
I ordered the Cash from our importer. I got one with 3-4" pin.
Im thinking 35/4,75/35 with this one.
>>PICTURE<<
Go for it!
Drill the ring finger 3.25" deep.
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THS Average: 205
Positive Axis Point: 5 5/8 up 3/4
Speed: 14 mph off hand
Rev Rate: 300
Axis Tilt: 15
Axis Rotation: 60
Location: Hong Kong

Re: 40 tilt 70 rot Track Cyborg & Radical Cash layouts

Post by ads »

Couldn't find much info on modified DT. How is it different from DT (30* VAL and 4" PAP-PIN)
Adrian
Right handed
PAP: 5 1/8 up 3/4
Speed: 15.5 mph (Kegel Specto)
Rev: 350 RPM
Axis tilt: 18-20*
Axis rotation: 60*
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Dustin
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Re: 40 tilt 70 rot Track Cyborg & Radical Cash layouts

Post by Dustin »

* MPH @ aarows
* RPM
AR *
AT *
PAP 3 3/4"
(* rebuilding)

“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.”
― Neil deGrasse Tyson
ads
Member
Member
Posts: 657
Joined: November 22nd, 2014, 6:07 am
THS Average: 205
Positive Axis Point: 5 5/8 up 3/4
Speed: 14 mph off hand
Rev Rate: 300
Axis Tilt: 15
Axis Rotation: 60
Location: Hong Kong

Re: 40 tilt 70 rot Track Cyborg & Radical Cash layouts

Post by ads »

Thanks. From the post and the other posts which it led me to, the Modified DT gives a lot of flexibility and combinations of PAP-PIN distance and balance hole location.

PAP-PIN distance - "a modified double thumb layout with the pin 4 1/2 -5 " to the PAP" viewtopic.php?p=3863#p3863" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

and Mo said, "Try a "Double Thumb" angle set up with a 4 3/4" pin to PAP distance. The balance hole options become endless. It's, then, up to how good your decisions are." viewtopic.php?p=3870#p3870" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The PAP-PIN distance of modified DT layout can be somewhere between 4.5" (or 4"?) to 5". And the balance hole location can be further away from the thumb hole (1.5 inches base). The modified DT layout is good for low tilt bowler to reduce jumpiness if I understand correctly.
Adrian
Right handed
PAP: 5 1/8 up 3/4
Speed: 15.5 mph (Kegel Specto)
Rev: 350 RPM
Axis tilt: 18-20*
Axis rotation: 60*
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