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 Post subject: Symmetrical ball PAP-PIN
 Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 6:37 am Post Number: #1 Post
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Will I get similar effect, if not what's difference, from 2.5 " PAP-PIN instead of 4.5" on a same symmetrical ball with same drilling and VAL angles?

I ask this question because for VAL angles between 50 to 70 and PAP-PIN longer than 4", my ring finger hole will very likely hit the PIN (at least partially or very close). This is something which my driller and myself like to avoid.

Thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: Symmetrical ball PAP-PIN
 Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 1:08 pm Post Number: #2 Post
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From the wiki:
http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index. ... echart.JPG

The amount of flare will be roughly the same, but the actual drill angle will vary because the MB/PSA will end up very close (in, or slightly left) to the thumbhole.

Place the pin and CG in such a way as to provide balance hole options for fine tuning the ball reaction. With the longer pin to PAP distance, place the pin in the finger hole and drill it out completely.

Pin in the ring finger with a 50 VAL is one of my personal favorites. With CG in the palm, you can also motion hole it.

Steve

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 Post subject: Re: Symmetrical ball PAP-PIN
 Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:22 pm Post Number: #3 Post
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stevespo wrote:
From the wiki:
http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index. ... echart.JPG

The amount of flare will be roughly the same, but the actual drill angle will vary because the MB/PSA will end up very close (in, or slightly left) to the thumbhole.

Place the pin and CG in such a way as to provide balance hole options for fine tuning the ball reaction. With the longer pin to PAP distance, place the pin in the finger hole and drill it out completely.

Pin in the ring finger with a 50 VAL is one of my personal favorites. With CG in the palm, you can also motion hole it.

Steve


Thanks Steve.

Will PIN in the ring finger weaken ball down lane motion further?

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Adrian

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PAP: 5 5/8 up 3/4
Speed: 14 mph off hand
Rev: 300 RPM
Axis tilt: 15*
Axis rotation: 60*


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 Post subject: Re: Symmetrical ball PAP-PIN
 Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 1:27 am Post Number: #4 Post
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ads wrote:
Will PIN in the ring finger weaken ball down lane motion further?

When you say weaken ball down lane motion do you mean less hook, slower hook, later roll?

Pin in the ring finger reduces the differential because you are drilling into the top of the core. Creating less flare. It is a longer, slower hook zone than pin above the ring finger (smaller VAL angle). But, it rolls sooner than Pin below the ring finger (larger VAL angle) which has a longer slower hook zone yet.

Shorter Pin to PAP on Symmetrical balls will create more skid due to the reduced flare and then roll forward sooner than long pin to PAP because of the shorter hook zone. I have found the shape to be more angular, skid snap reaction.

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PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
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 Post subject: Re: Symmetrical ball PAP-PIN
 Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 3:16 pm Post Number: #5 Post
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EricHartwell wrote:
When you say weaken ball down lane motion do you mean less hook, slower hook, later roll?

Pin in the ring finger reduces the differential because you are drilling into the top of the core. Creating less flare. It is a longer, slower hook zone than pin above the ring finger (smaller VAL angle). But, it rolls sooner than Pin below the ring finger (larger VAL angle) which has a longer slower hook zone yet.

Shorter Pin to PAP on Symmetrical balls will create more skid due to the reduced flare and then roll forward sooner than long pin to PAP because of the shorter hook zone. I have found the shape to be more angular, skid snap reaction.



Thanks Eric. The VAL angel determines how long / slow the hook zone. With PIN in finger hole, flare will be reduced additionally. Am I correct?

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Adrian

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Speed: 14 mph off hand
Rev: 300 RPM
Axis tilt: 15*
Axis rotation: 60*


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 Post subject: Re: Symmetrical ball PAP-PIN
 Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 5:17 pm Post Number: #6 Post
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ads wrote:


Thanks Eric. The VAL angel determines how long / slow the hook zone. With PIN in finger hole, flare will be reduced additionally. Am I correct?

The VAL angle in conjunction with the pin to PAP determines the hook zone.

Drilling the ring finger deeper will create a more noticable reduction in flare with the pin in the ring finger.

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Eric Hartwell

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PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
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 Post subject: Re: Symmetrical ball PAP-PIN
 Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:22 pm Post Number: #7 Post
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If the pin is drilled out in the ring finger, basically a control type of drilling with reduced differential, how much and what kind of a change in reaction would it be if you added a P4 balance hole? Also, would it be the same for an asymmetrical ball if you added a P4 with the pin in the ring finger? Is this worth doing?


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 Post subject: Re: Symmetrical ball PAP-PIN
 Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 4:42 pm Post Number: #8 Post
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duvallite wrote:
If the pin is drilled out in the ring finger, basically a control type of drilling with reduced differential, how much and what kind of a change in reaction would it be if you added a P4 balance hole? Also, would it be the same for an asymmetrical ball if you added a P4 with the pin in the ring finger? Is this worth doing?


A true P4 hole is not advised on a symmetrical ball. It isn't possible in most pin up balls, as the PSA will be in or about the thumb hole. In most pin down balls the PSA will be below the thumb hole. If you added a P4 hole below the thumb, you run a real risk of tracking over it.

So instead we usually use the "Double Thumb" location as P4 on a symmetrical ball. In any case, regardless of pin up or pin down, a P4 or DT hole will increase the diffs and strength of the balls reaction to friction.

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