Cash layout
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Cash layout
I have got myself a Radical Cash, 15lb, 3 3/8 pin, 2.7 top weight.
I would like a suggestion layout for sports/heavy oil patterns please.
My ball speed has dropped maybe 2mph.I could get this rechecked if its helpful.
Cheers.
I would like a suggestion layout for sports/heavy oil patterns please.
My ball speed has dropped maybe 2mph.I could get this rechecked if its helpful.
Cheers.
R/H, 20 mph off hand. 250 Revs.
11* Tilt. 70* Rotation. 5 5/8 x 1"up
11* Tilt. 70* Rotation. 5 5/8 x 1"up
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Re: Cash layout
Have you tried 45* 4 1/4" 25* on anything? That would be a strong ball. not neccessarily smooth and control, but it will hook and carry in my opinionballspoint wrote:I have got myself a Radical Cash, 15lb, 3 3/8 pin, 2.7 top weight.
I would like a suggestion layout for sports/heavy oil patterns please.
My ball speed has dropped maybe 2mph.I could get this rechecked if its helpful.
Cheers.
- EricHartwell
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- Location: Michigan
Re: Cash layout
Have you updated your signature to reflect the 2 mph loss in speed?ballspoint wrote:I have got myself a Radical Cash, 15lb, 3 3/8 pin, 2.7 top weight.
I would like a suggestion layout for sports/heavy oil patterns please.
My ball speed has dropped maybe 2mph.I could get this rechecked if its helpful.
Cheers.
For Sport type layouts the Pattern length is important information.
Heavy oil is what the Cash is meant for. Layout for it depends on the length.
Basically the Totally Strong Layout based on speed being 16 mph.elgavachon wrote:Have you tried 45* 4 1/4" 25* on anything? That would be a strong ball. not neccessarily smooth and control, but it will hook and carry in my opinion
This would be a good example for longer patterns.
Eric Hartwell
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
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- Member
- Posts: 300
- Joined: August 3rd, 2011, 4:44 am
- Speed: 20 mph off the hand
- Rev Rate: 250
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Re: Cash layout
I am getting my ball speed rechecked on Monday with my coach.
Our sports patterns are usually around 43 ft, 4:1 ratio.
I have 50* 3 3/4 35* on my Virtual Gravity Nano, but i usually played 7 board.
Had 35* 4 7/8 40* on Critical Theory pearl, was best on med/long patterns/burn.
I also use surface to get the result needed on any oil pattern.
I assume the cover strenght of the Cash as been considered with the 45* 4 1/4" 25* suggestion?
Will post again with ball speed. cheers
Our sports patterns are usually around 43 ft, 4:1 ratio.
I have 50* 3 3/4 35* on my Virtual Gravity Nano, but i usually played 7 board.
Had 35* 4 7/8 40* on Critical Theory pearl, was best on med/long patterns/burn.
I also use surface to get the result needed on any oil pattern.
I assume the cover strenght of the Cash as been considered with the 45* 4 1/4" 25* suggestion?
Will post again with ball speed. cheers
R/H, 20 mph off hand. 250 Revs.
11* Tilt. 70* Rotation. 5 5/8 x 1"up
11* Tilt. 70* Rotation. 5 5/8 x 1"up
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Re: Cash layout
Had ball speed checked, came out as avg 20.45, as was filmed 4 times.
My coach mentioned how he came to that, 15 frames, first 15ft, 30 frames per second.
So i assumed my speed had dropped, but actually increased, while doing this i felt comfortable with my approach and coming off my hand.
So with that new ifo, would layout is recommended please.
I add a balance hole after some practise on sports patterns.
New ball speed is now added to my signature.
My coach mentioned how he came to that, 15 frames, first 15ft, 30 frames per second.
So i assumed my speed had dropped, but actually increased, while doing this i felt comfortable with my approach and coming off my hand.
So with that new ifo, would layout is recommended please.
I add a balance hole after some practise on sports patterns.
New ball speed is now added to my signature.
R/H, 20 mph off hand. 250 Revs.
11* Tilt. 70* Rotation. 5 5/8 x 1"up
11* Tilt. 70* Rotation. 5 5/8 x 1"up
- EricHartwell
- Trusted Source
- Posts: 4080
- Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
- Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
- Speed: 16 off hand
- Rev Rate: 330
- Axis Tilt: 12
- Axis Rotation: 45
- Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
- Medium Oil Ball: EVO pearl, True Motion, Columbia Command, DV8 Intimidator
- Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer
- Location: Michigan
Re: Cash layout
I like to start with the Benchmark and work from there.ballspoint wrote:Had ball speed checked, came out as avg 20.45, as was filmed 4 times.
My coach mentioned how he came to that, 15 frames, first 15ft, 30 frames per second.
So i assumed my speed had dropped, but actually increased, while doing this i felt comfortable with my approach and coming off my hand.
So with that new ifo, would layout is recommended please.
I add a balance hole after some practise on sports patterns.
New ball speed is now added to my signature.
Speed dominant with low tilt and high rotation 70* total and 1.3:1 Ratio 40-4.25-30
Asymmetrical layouts for longer patterns
Sport layout ................. 15-5-35 P3
Totally Strong ............... 35-4.5-15 P3
Midlane ........................ 20-4.5-30 P3
Benchmark ................... 40-4.25-30 P2.5
Double Thumb Layout .... 70-4-30 Double thumb hole
I know that is a lot of choices.
I am personally a fan of the Midlane layout.
I suggest discussing these layouts with your Coach.
If you have any questions feel free to keep this discussion going.
Eric Hartwell
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
-
- Member
- Posts: 300
- Joined: August 3rd, 2011, 4:44 am
- Speed: 20 mph off the hand
- Rev Rate: 250
- Axis Tilt: 11
- Axis Rotation: 70
Re: Cash layout
That was quick, thank you.EricHartwell wrote: I like to start with the Benchmark and work from there.
Speed dominant with low tilt and high rotation 70* total and 1.3:1 Ratio 40-4.25-30
Asymmetrical layouts for longer patterns
Sport layout ................. 15-5-35 P3
Totally Strong ............... 35-4.5-15 P3
Midlane ........................ 20-4.5-30 P3
Benchmark ................... 40-4.25-30 P2.5
Double Thumb Layout .... 70-4-30 Double thumb hole
I know that is a lot of choices.
I am personally a fan of the Midlane layout.
I suggest discussing these layouts with your Coach.
If you have any questions feel free to keep this discussion going.
Strong layouts, dont know enough to comment how these will be on the Cash as it is a strong ball, How much does that come into your consideration when suggesting the layouts?
R/H, 20 mph off hand. 250 Revs.
11* Tilt. 70* Rotation. 5 5/8 x 1"up
11* Tilt. 70* Rotation. 5 5/8 x 1"up
- MegaMav
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Re: Cash layout
I'd do the old MoRich strong midlane layout, personally.
15 x 4 3/4 x 30 + P2 if needed for statics.
15 x 4 3/4 x 30 + P2 if needed for statics.
- EricHartwell
- Trusted Source
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- Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
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- Rev Rate: 330
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- Axis Rotation: 45
- Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
- Medium Oil Ball: EVO pearl, True Motion, Columbia Command, DV8 Intimidator
- Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer
- Location: Michigan
Re: Cash layout
For the intended long sport condition a Strong coverstock is basically the only recommendation. If you would have suggstd a weak covered ball I would have recommended against it.ballspoint wrote:
That was quick, thank you.
Strong layouts, dont know enough to comment how these will be on the Cash as it is a strong ball, How much does that come into your consideration when suggesting the layouts?
So, Yes the strength of the Cash was definitely considered.
Eric Hartwell
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
-
- Member
- Posts: 300
- Joined: August 3rd, 2011, 4:44 am
- Speed: 20 mph off the hand
- Rev Rate: 250
- Axis Tilt: 11
- Axis Rotation: 70
Re: Cash layout
Some on this site suggest to resurface a new ball before bowling, Makes alot of sense to me. As i can replicate that at home myself.
As the Cash is Factory Finish: 500, 1500 Siaair Micro Pad,
What would be a reccommened resurface to start with?
As the Cash is Factory Finish: 500, 1500 Siaair Micro Pad,
What would be a reccommened resurface to start with?
R/H, 20 mph off hand. 250 Revs.
11* Tilt. 70* Rotation. 5 5/8 x 1"up
11* Tilt. 70* Rotation. 5 5/8 x 1"up
- MegaMav
- Moderator
- Posts: 4694
- Joined: April 27th, 2007, 5:00 am
- THS Average: 225
- Sport Average: 200
- Positive Axis Point: 5.5 Over & 1 Up
- Speed: 16.0 MPH - Camera
- Rev Rate: 375
- Axis Tilt: 14
- Axis Rotation: 45
- Heavy Oil Ball: Radical - Informer
- Medium Oil Ball: Brunswick - Fearless
- Light Oil Ball: Radical - Bonus Pearl
- Preferred Company: Radical Bowling Technologies
- Location: Malta, NY
Re: Cash layout
Play around with different pads until you find the one you like.ballspoint wrote:Some on this site suggest to resurface a new ball before bowling, Makes alot of sense to me. As i can replicate that at home myself.
As the Cash is Factory Finish: 500, 1500 Siaair Micro Pad,
What would be a reccommened resurface to start with?
The coverstock is very versatile with surfaces.
If I were you I'd start with a 1000 pad by hand.
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- Posts: 300
- Joined: August 3rd, 2011, 4:44 am
- Speed: 20 mph off the hand
- Rev Rate: 250
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- Axis Rotation: 70
Re: Cash layout
I am personally a fan of the Midlane layout.ballspoint wrote:
That was quick, thank you.
Strong layouts, dont know enough to comment how these will be on the Cash as it is a strong ball, How much does that come into your consideration when suggesting the layouts?
I am considering the midlane layout, just a question with the pin above the fingers, is this expected?
I thought pin below is for strong drilling, or this is old school? Attached is a link to view and comment please. " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
R/H, 20 mph off hand. 250 Revs.
11* Tilt. 70* Rotation. 5 5/8 x 1"up
11* Tilt. 70* Rotation. 5 5/8 x 1"up
- EricHartwell
- Trusted Source
- Posts: 4080
- Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
- Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
- Speed: 16 off hand
- Rev Rate: 330
- Axis Tilt: 12
- Axis Rotation: 45
- Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
- Medium Oil Ball: EVO pearl, True Motion, Columbia Command, DV8 Intimidator
- Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer
- Location: Michigan
Re: Cash layout
Yes that is old school thinking.ballspoint wrote: I am personally a fan of the Midlane layout.
I am considering the midlane layout, just a question with the pin above the fingers, is this expected?
I thought pin below is for strong drilling, or this is old school? Attached is a link to view and comment please. " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Pin down is for a longer hook zone that can produce more hook but it also delays the roll. For longer patterns especially on the fresh this makes carrying strikes difficult.
Eric Hartwell
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
-
- Member
- Posts: 300
- Joined: August 3rd, 2011, 4:44 am
- Speed: 20 mph off the hand
- Rev Rate: 250
- Axis Tilt: 11
- Axis Rotation: 70
Re: Cash layout
Hi, could you readjust the midlane layout a bit weaker. Couple of reasons, my ball driller/coach is helping me with ball speed and release, so long term these would siut a weaker layout, also i use surface alot to suit the oil pattern. I am getting at a more useable layout with surface for the patterns.ballspoint wrote:
That was quick, thank you.
Strong layouts, dont know enough to comment how these will be on the Cash as it is a strong ball, How much does that come into your consideration when suggesting the layouts?
Hope you get what iam trying to say. Thanks.
R/H, 20 mph off hand. 250 Revs.
11* Tilt. 70* Rotation. 5 5/8 x 1"up
11* Tilt. 70* Rotation. 5 5/8 x 1"up
- EricHartwell
- Trusted Source
- Posts: 4080
- Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
- Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
- Speed: 16 off hand
- Rev Rate: 330
- Axis Tilt: 12
- Axis Rotation: 45
- Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
- Medium Oil Ball: EVO pearl, True Motion, Columbia Command, DV8 Intimidator
- Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer
- Location: Michigan
Re: Cash layout
Benchmark ................... 40-4.25-30 P2.5ballspoint wrote:
Hi, could you readjust the midlane layout a bit weaker. Couple of reasons, my ball driller/coach is helping me with ball speed and release, so long term these would siut a weaker layout, also i use surface alot to suit the oil pattern. I am getting at a more useable layout with surface for the patterns.
Hope you get what iam trying to say. Thanks.
Eric Hartwell
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
-
- Member
- Posts: 300
- Joined: August 3rd, 2011, 4:44 am
- Speed: 20 mph off the hand
- Rev Rate: 250
- Axis Tilt: 11
- Axis Rotation: 70
Re: Cash layout
Benchmark drilled, still no balance hole, waiting for some decent oil to find tune it. Went with the benchmark so i can adjust the surface for different oil patterns/volume. Had a bowl on a house pattern just testing the grip and a play, rolls nice an strong, will post again in the new year, thanks for the layouts and time, cheers.EricHartwell wrote:
Benchmark ................... 40-4.25-30 P2.5
R/H, 20 mph off hand. 250 Revs.
11* Tilt. 70* Rotation. 5 5/8 x 1"up
11* Tilt. 70* Rotation. 5 5/8 x 1"up