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 Post subject: Cash layout
 Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 8:37 pm Post Number: #1 Post
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I have got myself a Radical Cash, 15lb, 3 3/8 pin, 2.7 top weight.
I would like a suggestion layout for sports/heavy oil patterns please.
My ball speed has dropped maybe 2mph.I could get this rechecked if its helpful.
Cheers.

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 Post subject: Re: Cash layout
 Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:56 am Post Number: #2 Post
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ballspoint wrote:
I have got myself a Radical Cash, 15lb, 3 3/8 pin, 2.7 top weight.
I would like a suggestion layout for sports/heavy oil patterns please.
My ball speed has dropped maybe 2mph.I could get this rechecked if its helpful.
Cheers.

Have you tried 45* 4 1/4" 25* on anything? That would be a strong ball. not neccessarily smooth and control, but it will hook and carry in my opinion


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 Post subject: Re: Cash layout
 Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:33 am Post Number: #3 Post
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ballspoint wrote:
I have got myself a Radical Cash, 15lb, 3 3/8 pin, 2.7 top weight.
I would like a suggestion layout for sports/heavy oil patterns please.
My ball speed has dropped maybe 2mph.I could get this rechecked if its helpful.
Cheers.

Have you updated your signature to reflect the 2 mph loss in speed?

For Sport type layouts the Pattern length is important information.
Heavy oil is what the Cash is meant for. Layout for it depends on the length.

elgavachon wrote:
Have you tried 45* 4 1/4" 25* on anything? That would be a strong ball. not neccessarily smooth and control, but it will hook and carry in my opinion

Basically the Totally Strong Layout based on speed being 16 mph.
This would be a good example for longer patterns.

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PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
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 Post subject: Re: Cash layout
 Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 11:31 pm Post Number: #4 Post
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I am getting my ball speed rechecked on Monday with my coach.
Our sports patterns are usually around 43 ft, 4:1 ratio.

I have 50* 3 3/4 35* on my Virtual Gravity Nano, but i usually played 7 board.
Had 35* 4 7/8 40* on Critical Theory pearl, was best on med/long patterns/burn.
I also use surface to get the result needed on any oil pattern.

I assume the cover strenght of the Cash as been considered with the 45* 4 1/4" 25* suggestion?
Will post again with ball speed. cheers

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 Post subject: Re: Cash layout
 Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:37 am Post Number: #5 Post
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Had ball speed checked, came out as avg 20.45, as was filmed 4 times.
My coach mentioned how he came to that, 15 frames, first 15ft, 30 frames per second.
So i assumed my speed had dropped, but actually increased, while doing this i felt comfortable with my approach and coming off my hand.
So with that new ifo, would layout is recommended please.

I add a balance hole after some practise on sports patterns.

New ball speed is now added to my signature.

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 Post subject: Re: Cash layout
 Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 4:10 am Post Number: #6 Post
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ballspoint wrote:
Had ball speed checked, came out as avg 20.45, as was filmed 4 times.
My coach mentioned how he came to that, 15 frames, first 15ft, 30 frames per second.
So i assumed my speed had dropped, but actually increased, while doing this i felt comfortable with my approach and coming off my hand.
So with that new ifo, would layout is recommended please.

I add a balance hole after some practise on sports patterns.

New ball speed is now added to my signature.

I like to start with the Benchmark and work from there.
Speed dominant with low tilt and high rotation 70* total and 1.3:1 Ratio 40-4.25-30

Asymmetrical layouts for longer patterns
Sport layout ................. 15-5-35 P3
Totally Strong ............... 35-4.5-15 P3
Midlane ........................ 20-4.5-30 P3
Benchmark ................... 40-4.25-30 P2.5
Double Thumb Layout .... 70-4-30 Double thumb hole

I know that is a lot of choices.

I am personally a fan of the Midlane layout.

I suggest discussing these layouts with your Coach.
If you have any questions feel free to keep this discussion going.

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Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand


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 Post subject: Re: Cash layout
 Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 8:33 am Post Number: #7 Post
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EricHartwell wrote:
I like to start with the Benchmark and work from there.
Speed dominant with low tilt and high rotation 70* total and 1.3:1 Ratio 40-4.25-30

Asymmetrical layouts for longer patterns
Sport layout ................. 15-5-35 P3
Totally Strong ............... 35-4.5-15 P3
Midlane ........................ 20-4.5-30 P3
Benchmark ................... 40-4.25-30 P2.5
Double Thumb Layout .... 70-4-30 Double thumb hole

I know that is a lot of choices.

I am personally a fan of the Midlane layout.

I suggest discussing these layouts with your Coach.
If you have any questions feel free to keep this discussion going.


That was quick, thank you.
Strong layouts, dont know enough to comment how these will be on the Cash as it is a strong ball, How much does that come into your consideration when suggesting the layouts?

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11* Tilt. 70* Rotation. 5 5/8 x 1"up


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 Post subject: Re: Cash layout
 Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:54 pm Post Number: #8 Post
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I'd do the old MoRich strong midlane layout, personally.
15 x 4 3/4 x 30 + P2 if needed for statics.

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 Post subject: Re: Cash layout
 Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 5:25 pm Post Number: #9 Post
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ballspoint wrote:

That was quick, thank you.
Strong layouts, dont know enough to comment how these will be on the Cash as it is a strong ball, How much does that come into your consideration when suggesting the layouts?

For the intended long sport condition a Strong coverstock is basically the only recommendation. If you would have suggstd a weak covered ball I would have recommended against it.

So, Yes the strength of the Cash was definitely considered.

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PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand


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 Post subject: Re: Cash layout
 Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 12:36 am Post Number: #10 Post
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Some on this site suggest to resurface a new ball before bowling, Makes alot of sense to me. As i can replicate that at home myself.
As the Cash is Factory Finish: 500, 1500 Siaair Micro Pad,
What would be a reccommened resurface to start with?

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 Post subject: Re: Cash layout
 Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 1:28 am Post Number: #11 Post
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ballspoint wrote:
Some on this site suggest to resurface a new ball before bowling, Makes alot of sense to me. As i can replicate that at home myself.
As the Cash is Factory Finish: 500, 1500 Siaair Micro Pad,
What would be a reccommened resurface to start with?


Play around with different pads until you find the one you like.
The coverstock is very versatile with surfaces.
If I were you I'd start with a 1000 pad by hand.

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 Post subject: Re: Cash layout
 Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:33 pm Post Number: #12 Post
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ballspoint wrote:

That was quick, thank you.
Strong layouts, dont know enough to comment how these will be on the Cash as it is a strong ball, How much does that come into your consideration when suggesting the layouts?

I am personally a fan of the Midlane layout.

I am considering the midlane layout, just a question with the pin above the fingers, is this expected?
I thought pin below is for strong drilling, or this is old school? Attached is a link to view and comment please. https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B94Vbw ... sp=sharing

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11* Tilt. 70* Rotation. 5 5/8 x 1"up


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 Post subject: Re: Cash layout
 Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:44 pm Post Number: #13 Post
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ballspoint wrote:
I am personally a fan of the Midlane layout.

I am considering the midlane layout, just a question with the pin above the fingers, is this expected?
I thought pin below is for strong drilling, or this is old school? Attached is a link to view and comment please. https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B94Vbw ... sp=sharing

Yes that is old school thinking.
Pin down is for a longer hook zone that can produce more hook but it also delays the roll. For longer patterns especially on the fresh this makes carrying strikes difficult.

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Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand


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 Post subject: Re: Cash layout
 Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:42 pm Post Number: #14 Post
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ballspoint wrote:

That was quick, thank you.
Strong layouts, dont know enough to comment how these will be on the Cash as it is a strong ball, How much does that come into your consideration when suggesting the layouts?


Hi, could you readjust the midlane layout a bit weaker. Couple of reasons, my ball driller/coach is helping me with ball speed and release, so long term these would siut a weaker layout, also i use surface alot to suit the oil pattern. I am getting at a more useable layout with surface for the patterns.
Hope you get what iam trying to say. Thanks.

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11* Tilt. 70* Rotation. 5 5/8 x 1"up


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 Post subject: Re: Cash layout
 Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:33 am Post Number: #15 Post
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ballspoint wrote:

Hi, could you readjust the midlane layout a bit weaker. Couple of reasons, my ball driller/coach is helping me with ball speed and release, so long term these would siut a weaker layout, also i use surface alot to suit the oil pattern. I am getting at a more useable layout with surface for the patterns.
Hope you get what iam trying to say. Thanks.


Benchmark ................... 40-4.25-30 P2.5

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Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand


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 Post subject: Re: Cash layout
 Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:31 pm Post Number: #16 Post
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EricHartwell wrote:

Benchmark ................... 40-4.25-30 P2.5


Benchmark drilled, still no balance hole, waiting for some decent oil to find tune it. Went with the benchmark so i can adjust the surface for different oil patterns/volume. Had a bowl on a house pattern just testing the grip and a play, rolls nice an strong, will post again in the new year, thanks for the layouts and time, cheers.

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11* Tilt. 70* Rotation. 5 5/8 x 1"up


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