Full Roller layout?

Which layout is right for me?

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rgessert
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Full Roller layout?

Post by rgessert »

I know that my release is the issue here, but I am struggling to correct my rotation. My question is: If I put a full roller layout on my ball will that correct the issue of tracking over the holes? Also what will significantly change the reaction of my ball? I am currently scoring quite well as long as the ball is not hopping while going down the lane.

Here is my release: https://youtu.be/xcBsOk-izyI
20171019_112844.jpg
Thank you in advance for any assistance.
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VLe
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Re: Full Roller layout?

Post by VLe »

rgessert wrote:My question is: If I put a full roller layout on my ball will that correct the issue of tracking over the holes?
No. A layout does not correct the issue. A certain layout may help the ball to flare away from the holes though. Are you sure that your first track is rolling over the holes? The ball is not flaring wrong direction...? does your spare ball have similar problem?

Beside practicing release, a performance fit for the ball would help your situation. Finger pitch changes does wonders for the release/ball track but you need to have a proper fit as a starting point. When was the last time you had your grip checked by a skilled PSO?
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LittleTiger
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Re: Full Roller layout?

Post by LittleTiger »

rgessert wrote:I know that my release is the issue here, but I am struggling to correct my rotation.
I know that you didn't ask about this but I can see that there are things which should be actually quite simple to fix on your release.

Your release looks OK still on this point and what I would like to see your learn is just let ball go instead of "doing release":
1.PNG
From this picture you can also see that how far from foul line you throw your ball and what I would like to see is that you would let it drop near to your ankle:
2.png
These changes will make ball motion easier to control and then we can find layouts which will make ball motion stronger (if it feels that new release will not generate strong enough ball motion).
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EricHartwell
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Re: Full Roller layout?

Post by EricHartwell »

rgessert wrote:I know that my release is the issue here, but I am struggling to correct my rotation. My question is: If I put a full roller layout on my ball will that correct the issue of tracking over the holes? Also what will significantly change the reaction of my ball? I am currently scoring quite well as long as the ball is not hopping while going down the lane.

Here is my release: https://youtu.be/xcBsOk-izyI
20171019_112844.jpg
Thank you in advance for any assistance.
From the limited view of your ball roll It looks to me like you have Negative tilt.

What is your PAP?
What is your tilt?
http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index. ... =Axis_tilt" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

To clarify what what VLe was saying, the full roller layout will not get your initial track off your thumb hole. It will make the ball flare with the bowtie in your grip center and take it off your thumb by flaring in the opposite direction as does a standard layout.

I see in the video you are wearing a strap. Is this because of elbow pain?
You also have your elbow bent during your release. This is a sign that you have excessive grip pressure.

Get your grip checked.

You shouldn't have to squeeze so hard and be able to have your elbow straight at the time of release.
There are procedures in the Wiki for checking your grip...

http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index. ... itting.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Eric Hartwell

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PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
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rgessert
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Location: Missouri

Re: Full Roller layout?

Post by rgessert »

Thank you all for the replies. My pap last season was 5 1/4 by 1 1/8 up and tilt was very near 0. There are 2 distinct ways I roll over the thumb. One is either it lands on the thumb hole off my hand and the other is it will hit thumb very near the breakpoint and hop.

I will use the wiki and check grip. I have my own drill press and know the basics of imitating an already measured hand. I have been using the spans and pitches off my previous equipment and that could very well be my fit issue. Also my elbow brace is exactly for pain. I grew up/currently bowl/golf/tennis and they all bother.

Thank you for all the tips. This is simply the best resource for a bowler.
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VLe
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Re: Full Roller layout?

Post by VLe »

rgessert wrote:Thank you all for the replies. My pap last season was 5 1/4 by 1 1/8 up and tilt was very near 0. There are 2 distinct ways I roll over the thumb. One is either it lands on the thumb hole off my hand and the other is it will hit thumb very near the breakpoint and hop.
Something here is bothering me. Does the initial track (first track/oil line in ball) roll sometimes between thumb and fingers (not hitting any hole)? Your PAP location is quite far away from your grip center, yet in your layout you have the pin positioned at grip centerline above fingers. If you have a low-flaring ball or preferably a plastic ball, you should check your true PAP with that. Then based on that PAP check the existing layout on the ball you posted a picture. I have a feeling that for example your pin-pap-distance may be so big that the ball starts to migrate towards wrong axle. Do you have a balance hole in the ball?

Especially with symmetric core balls (is you'r roto grip outcry?), when the ball have stopped hooking and is on the rolling phase, it should spin through the axle (PSA) that is near the thumbhole. You can place a piece of tape next to your thumbhole (preferably to the right site of thumbhole) and see if in the roll phase the tape is near the spinning axis (it should).

One prolem usually brings up many questions in this sport. :)
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Re: Full Roller layout?

Post by JohnP »

Based on the track rings you placed on the ball I'd say your PAP is closer to 6 1/2" over, the 1 1/8" up may be close to right. Your track is starting out on the edge of the thumb hole then flaring over it. Changing to a full roller layout won't change the initial track, but it will change the flare so it goes away from the thumb hole. You need to decide if you want to change to a semi-roller track or stay with the full roller. -- JohnP
rgessert
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Joined: February 25th, 2016, 3:13 am
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Positive Axis Point: 5 1/4" x 1 1/8" Up
Speed: 18.5 camera
Rev Rate: 400
Axis Tilt: 7
Axis Rotation: 65
Heavy Oil Ball: Melee Hook
Medium Oil Ball: Chemical X/IQ 30
Light Oil Ball: Tropical Breeze
Location: Missouri

Re: Full Roller layout?

Post by rgessert »

The ball pictured is a Storm Breeze. Yes sometimes my track does goes just left of middle ringer and just rights of the thumb hole. I will recheck my pap as well and report in. Sounds like I simply need practice to correct the bad habits. Also it does seem that my span may be short as well.
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Re: Full Roller layout?

Post by JohnP »

When you think you have your PAP location correct mark it with a piece of white tape and have someone watch you throw it. If it's correct the tape will appear stationary when the ball comes off your hand, then begin to wobble as the ball flares. -- JohnP
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