Motiv Jackal Ghost Layout advice

Which layout is right for me?

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fufu
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Motiv Jackal Ghost Layout advice

Post by fufu »

Greetings, I've returned to tournament bowling after a 4ish year layoff. Here is my current arsenal:

Motiv Forza GT -- 2000 Abralon -- 50 x 4.5 x 60
Motiv Octane Carbon -- 1500g -- 60 x 4.5 x 35
Motiv Apex Ascent -- 4000g -- 60 x 4 x 40
Hammer Black Widow spare

I recently purchased a Motiv Jackal Ghost. I'm looking for something for heavier fresh sport patterns. I was thinking something like 45 x 4.5 x 60. I'm open to suggestions, specs are in my signature.

TIA.
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Re: Motiv Jackal Ghost Layout advice

Post by MegaMav »

fufu wrote:Greetings, I've returned to tournament bowling after a 4ish year layoff. Here is my current arsenal:

Motiv Forza GT -- 2000 Abralon -- 50 x 4.5 x 60
Motiv Octane Carbon -- 1500g -- 60 x 4.5 x 35
Motiv Apex Ascent -- 4000g -- 60 x 4 x 40
Hammer Black Widow spare

I recently purchased a Motiv Jackal Ghost. I'm looking for something for heavier fresh sport patterns. I was thinking something like 45 x 4.5 x 60. I'm open to suggestions, specs are in my signature.

TIA.
Wow! Welcome back! I always enjoyed reading your posts.
Hopefully you'll be here to stay.

I cant think of anything better than the Radical Cash (Asym) or the Brunswick Fanatic SS (Sym).
I am not familiar with the Motiv product.
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EricHartwell
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Re: Motiv Jackal Ghost Layout advice

Post by EricHartwell »

fufu wrote:Greetings, I've returned to tournament bowling after a 4ish year layoff. Here is my current arsenal:

Motiv Forza GT -- 2000 Abralon -- 50 x 4.5 x 60
Motiv Octane Carbon -- 1500g -- 60 x 4.5 x 35
Motiv Apex Ascent -- 4000g -- 60 x 4 x 40
Hammer Black Widow spare

I recently purchased a Motiv Jackal Ghost. I'm looking for something for heavier fresh sport patterns. I was thinking something like 45 x 4.5 x 60. I'm open to suggestions, specs are in my signature.

TIA.
What pound equipment are you rolling?

You say heavy sport condition, do you mean long oil, 44' and longer?
Eric Hartwell

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Re: Motiv Jackal Ghost Layout advice

Post by fufu »

MegaMav wrote:
Wow! Welcome back! I always enjoyed reading your posts.
Hopefully you'll be here to stay.

I cant think of anything better than the Radical Cash (Asym) or the Brunswick Fanatic SS (Sym).
I am not familiar with the Motiv product.
Ya, I took a year off, then about another half a year off. Just got burned out and I was fighting an injury and a demanding work schedule. I retired from the military in July and now have a considerable amount of free time on my hands. I work for the local bowling association.

I love Mo's contributions to this forum and I greatly appreciate his advice. That said, for whatever reason, I just haven't had much luck with his equipment. I looked at the Cash, but opt'd for the Jackal instead.
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Re: Motiv Jackal Ghost Layout advice

Post by fufu »

EricHartwell wrote: What pound equipment are you rolling?

You say heavy sport condition, do you mean long oil, 44' and longer?
14.

Yes, longer patterns and/or heavier oil.
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EricHartwell
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Re: Motiv Jackal Ghost Layout advice

Post by EricHartwell »

I always start with the Benchmark and work from there.
90* total 1.25:1 Ratio 50-4-40 Asymmetrical Benchmark

Long oil Sport layout ..... 35-5.25-35

Midlane ....................... 30-4.5-40

Totally Strong .............. 45-4.5-25

All three of these layouts will require a balance hole. I should have asked the Pin to Cg distance and top weight. You will want to roll it first, recheck your PAP, then decide on the balance hole anyway.
The Ghost at 14# .059 Diff is going to Flare Alot. Especially with the Sport and Midlane layouts.

The Sport layout will play the straightest and roll the soonest.
The Midlane will read the lane the soonest and have the potential to hook the most.
Totally Strong will skid the longest and have the strongest/angular backend.

I like to give choices rather than just say it should be drilled like this.

Not to dismiss your idea of 45 x 4.5 x 60, But it would be better suited as a Control layout for when the longer pattern gets beat up or medium length heavy oil conditions.
Eric Hartwell

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fufu
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Re: Motiv Jackal Ghost Layout advice

Post by fufu »

EricHartwell wrote:I always start with the Benchmark and work from there.
90* total 1.25:1 Ratio 50-4-40 Asymmetrical Benchmark

Long oil Sport layout ..... 35-5.25-35

Midlane ....................... 30-4.5-40

Totally Strong .............. 45-4.5-25

All three of these layouts will require a balance hole. I should have asked the Pin to Cg distance and top weight. You will want to roll it first, recheck your PAP, then decide on the balance hole anyway.
The Ghost at 14# .059 Diff is going to Flare Alot. Especially with the Sport and Midlane layouts.

The Sport layout will play the straightest and roll the soonest.
The Midlane will read the lane the soonest and have the potential to hook the most.
Totally Strong will skid the longest and have the strongest/angular backend.

I like to give choices rather than just say it should be drilled like this.

Not to dismiss your idea of 45 x 4.5 x 60, But it would be better suited as a Control layout for when the longer pattern gets beat up or medium length heavy oil conditions.
Eric,

Thank you very much for the input. So, I went thru my previous posts, I had a Critical Theory a few years back, it was 60 x 4.25 x 40. Whats your thoughts on that layout? I really liked that on sport patterns and gave me a good mix of being able to play straight and loop it a touch if I needed too. I'm afraid that any VAL angle less than 35 won't hit if I get it alittle right of my breakpoint.

Look forward to your inputs.
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EricHartwell
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Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
Speed: 16 off hand
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Axis Tilt: 12
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Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
Medium Oil Ball: EVO pearl, True Motion, Columbia Command, DV8 Intimidator
Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer
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Re: Motiv Jackal Ghost Layout advice

Post by EricHartwell »

fufu wrote:Thank you very much for the input. So, I went thru my previous posts, I had a Critical Theory a few years back, it was 60 x 4.25 x 40. Whats your thoughts on that layout? I really liked that on sport patterns and gave me a good mix of being able to play straight and loop it a touch if I needed too. I'm afraid that any VAL angle less than 35 won't hit if I get it alittle right of my breakpoint.

Look forward to your inputs.
Larger VAL angles produce longer slower hook zones pushing the roll phase further down the lane. Smaller VAL angles react quicker to the friction creating a shorter more angular hook zone and will get into a roll sooner. The ball needs to roll to hit.
I don't understand your fear of it not hitting. If you miss the breakpoint to the right on a longer heavier sport pattern your fear should be of leaving washouts not whether or not its going to hit.

60-4.25-40 is getting closer to what I figured for a Benchmark, but still higher totals and ratio pushing the reaction towards Long and Strong. On a longer pattern you want the ball to read the friction asap and not push any longer and end up still in the hook phase when it hits the pocket. My suggestions are also meant to be for your A game. To get your ideas to work on long fresh patterns you will need to alter your release to become rev dominant.

Since you mentioned it I went back and looked at some of your posts and I see my suggestions are outside your box. I thought this was intended to be a condition specific ball. Your ideas from what I can tell are trying to make it more usable. If that is the case then I suggest the Benchmark 50-4-40.
The Benchmark is a Strong reaction in the middle of your wheelhouse. The Strong coverstock is still going to put it in the category of condition specific just not quite as specific as what I have suggested.
Eric Hartwell

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PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
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fufu
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Re: Motiv Jackal Ghost Layout advice

Post by fufu »

EricHartwell wrote:Larger VAL angles produce longer slower hook zones pushing the roll phase further down the lane. Smaller VAL angles react quicker to the friction creating a shorter more angular hook zone and will get into a roll sooner. The ball needs to roll to hit.
I don't understand your fear of it not hitting. If you miss the breakpoint to the right on a longer heavier sport pattern your fear should be of leaving washouts not whether or not its going to hit.

60-4.25-40 is getting closer to what I figured for a Benchmark, but still higher totals and ratio pushing the reaction towards Long and Strong. On a longer pattern you want the ball to read the friction asap and not push any longer and end up still in the hook phase when it hits the pocket. My suggestions are also meant to be for your A game. To get your ideas to work on long fresh patterns you will need to alter your release to become rev dominant.

Since you mentioned it I went back and looked at some of your posts and I see my suggestions are outside your box. I thought this was intended to be a condition specific ball. Your ideas from what I can tell are trying to make it more usable. If that is the case then I suggest the Benchmark 50-4-40.
The Benchmark is a Strong reaction in the middle of your wheelhouse. The Strong coverstock is still going to put it in the category of condition specific just not quite as specific as what I have suggested.
Eric,

Yes, I'd like the ball to be as usable as possible. I understand that means I may have to make some adjustments with hand position, speed, tilt, etc to get the ball to perform how i want. I just dont want to go down the rabbit hole of drilling 8-9 balls. I generally like to keep my arsenal at a max of 6.

Again, I really appreciate your advice on this matter.
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Re: Motiv Jackal Ghost Layout advice

Post by fufu »

Went to the center today to verify my layouts:

Forza GT: 70x5x73..balance hole on VAL below PAP
Octane Carbon: 83x5x40(no hole)
Apex: 45x4.5x35...balance hole on VAL below PAP
Spare: 75x5.5x42(no hole)

Motiv TV4: 68x4 7/8 x 43. No hole, this one is 15 and I rarely throw it
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