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 Post subject: Flare safe zone for no thumb high trackers
 Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 6:33 pm Post Number: #1 Post
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I've worked hard on achieving a 3/4 roll this summer but I am still tracking real close to the finger holes.

Since the VAL angle mainly dictates how far away the thumbhole is in relation to the pin (how strong of a balance hole the thumb hole acts like) I think I can set the pin in the flare safest way and then dictate the drilling angle and "val" angle with balance hole placement.

from what I've gathered the safest track flare safe line would be pins in the 4-5 range 1" above a line from the pap through the ring finger hole on balls that have at least 0.020 diff.

any other theories on what is the safest track flare position for very high trackers?


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 Post subject: Re: Flare safe zone for no thumb high trackers
 Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 6:53 pm Post Number: #2 Post
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Just a side question, what pitches are you using in the finger holes?

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 Post subject: Re: Flare safe zone for no thumb high trackers
 Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 6:55 pm Post Number: #3 Post
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Dustin wrote:
Just a side question, what pitches are you using in the finger holes?


I've experimented with basically everything but will probably settle for a simple 3/4 reverse in both and 7/16 laterals in both


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 Post subject: Re: Flare safe zone for no thumb high trackers
 Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 3:24 pm Post Number: #4 Post
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Have you tried "hooking" the MF more than the RF. 1/4" forward in MF, 3/8" reverse in RF as a starting point.

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 Post subject: Re: Flare safe zone for no thumb high trackers
 Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 4:17 pm Post Number: #5 Post
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I've done everything. done the mo pitches, variances of it. tried the opposite, tried excessive left and right pitches. tried a lot of reverse and lots of foward and everything in between


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 Post subject: Re: Flare safe zone for no thumb high trackers
 Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 8:53 pm Post Number: #6 Post
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gunso wrote:
I've done everything. done the mo pitches, variances of it. tried the opposite, tried excessive left and right pitches. tried a lot of reverse and lots of foward and everything in between

Have you tried all those different pitches/laterals attempting a 3/4 roller or while you were rolling over-rolled?

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 Post subject: Re: Flare safe zone for no thumb high trackers
 Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:51 pm Post Number: #7 Post
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I have a lot of bowling balls laying around with some of those old pitches so I have tried most of them. pitch changes don't seem to have a large effect on how I track, more on the roll I get on the ball. 3/4 reverse and 7/16 laterals are after a session with Del Warren so I am at least going to give that a shot along with other advices from him. I mentioned Mo's grip since Del speaks highly of Mo and it seemed to surprise him that those were recommended by Mo.

this thread wasn't really about pitch changes. I was just going for feedback on my internet research on the most flare safe line through the pap and what pin to pap distances would be most flare safe.

I have seen a line through pap through middle finger
I have seen a line through pap through ring finger
my guess for the safest placement would be an inch over the line through the pap and through the ring finger. that would also be a more safe placement for not roling over the balance hole on the backend.

regarding pin to pap distances I have seen Mo recomend no more than 5 and no more than 4 3/4 pin to pap distance and I have also seen him recomennd a 4.5" pin for a low tilt player to keep it flare safe instead of a shorter distance so I am guessing pin to pap distances from 4-4.75 are probably the safest distances

Lets just assume that my problem of rolling over the fingers are layout specific and not because of my history as an overrolled full roller


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 Post subject: Re: Flare safe zone for no thumb high trackers
 Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 10:58 pm Post Number: #8 Post
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If it's any help here's from a post I made before, it includes info from Ebonite and Mo about the Flare safe zone.

I don't know that it's a set in stone rule, but it has been a general guideline for approximating the top bowtie location.

This had to do with what was called the Flare Safe zone, if you had a high track and you put the pin too low. You ran the risk of the ball flaring over your finger holes.

The old guideline on what you did was draw a line from your initial PAP through your Ring finger hole to the track. (This IMO showed basically where your release would cause the bowtie to be.)

Then If you placed the pin above and to the right of that imaginary line (on high track players) it minimized the chances of the ball tracking (flaring) over the finger holes.

If you placed the pin below that imaginary line you ran a greater risk of the ball tracking (flaring) over the finger holes.

You would also see "draw a line from the PAP through the pin to the track. To approximate the top bowtie location." used in conjunction with it. (This IMO showed basically where the ball layout +release would most likely cause the bowtie to be.)

This is a quote from Ebonite that relates to this also:

"If you draw a line from the positive axis point, through the locator pin to your ball track, that spot would constitute the pivot for your track flare bow tie. When the track flares, it moves closer to the fingers and farther from the thumb so this causes your ball to roll over the fingers.

You should ONLY drill a pin in the flare safe zone referenced in our documentation. That zone is above a line from your positive axis point to your ring finger. Anything below that line raises your roll especially in asymmetrical bowling products."


According to a MO post he said that's more related to how older balls tracked, That with today's more dynamic cores the bowtie locations have been altered somewhat. He said:
"On modern balls the top bowtie is usually about an 1 1/2" to 3" above the line(on the track) from the PAP through the pin. The bowtie(location?) is far less defined than it used to be because of the stronger dynamics of modern cores."

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