This is by Ronald Hickland Jr,
This presentation talks about layouts. We use a symmetrical core shape and offer the advantages of knowing several key metrics when considering different layouts.
Video "Bowling Layouts for the Modern Game Part 1"
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Video "Bowling Layouts for the Modern Game Part 1"
"REMEMBER, it isn't how much the ball hooks, it's where."
Re: Video "Bowling Layouts for the Modern Game Part 1"
This is kind of my “book report” on the presentation – LOL!
Ron Hickland, Jr. is much more laid back in this YouTube video presentation of an introduction to symmetric layouts for us average bowlers. Usually, he is very animated and rapid talking. This presentation talks about bowler specs, lane condition, ball selection, (two generic) layouts and ball track, layouts and ball track based on bowler specs, 4 types of ball motion, and some summary things to consider.
Ron used the Blueprint Simulation Software in his presentation. His average bowler's specs are: 17 mph, 350 rpm, 10o axis tilt, 60o axis rotation. I would consider this average bowler to be slighty rev-dominate.
Ron takes issue with using two generic layouts #1 (70 x 3.5 x 20) and #2 (80 x 4.5 x 40) without considering bowler specs; which just happen to be Mo's Layout-A and Layout-C of the 4 simplified SYM layouts. With a general PAP of 5” over, Layout #1 has the issue of the dry track lines rolling over the thumb hole; and Layout #2 having the issue of Pin in the right finger hole which can lead to warranty issues and ball cracking. Ron states that you can't see the dry track lines (on the ball), but I distinctly remember using dry tracks to measure axis migration in the dry area. And, Mo has stated that you should keep the VAL at/over 20 degrees to avoid this problem. Are we talking about the same dry track lines?
Ron goes on to present layouts based on his average bowler spec that relate to the 4 types of ball motion. These layouts avoid the issues of the pin in the finger hole, and tracking over the thumb hole. Remember that Mo is not a fan of pin down layouts in SYM balls, and 3-3/8 Pin-to-PAP falls in Mo's No Zone or Twitch City.
NOTE: There is a typo for the Traction Layout @ 45 x 3-3/8 x 60; it is incorrectly listed as 45 x 3-3/8 x 30 on the summary chart.
Here is my take-away from this presentation:
- The easier the pattern, the less the layout will impact ball performance.
- Layouts are no more than 10% of Total Ball Performance.
- The average bowler may not see much in the way of ball performance difference between the layouts.
- Find layouts that work for your game, but don't overthink it.
This sorta agrees with the conclusions I have come to after going around the block on layouts, and it reflects remarks I have heard from Shockley, Boomershine, et. al. for the AVERAGE bowler. I am beginning to think that the first question to ask a bowler requesting layouts is “What is your sanctioned average?” My KISS principle for the AVERAGE bowler:
The ~180 AVERAGE bowler really doesn't benefit from having multiple layout options; fewer is better; and find that/those few layouts that work best for you from your experience on the conditions you routinely bowl.
Thoughts?
Ron Hickland, Jr. is much more laid back in this YouTube video presentation of an introduction to symmetric layouts for us average bowlers. Usually, he is very animated and rapid talking. This presentation talks about bowler specs, lane condition, ball selection, (two generic) layouts and ball track, layouts and ball track based on bowler specs, 4 types of ball motion, and some summary things to consider.
Ron used the Blueprint Simulation Software in his presentation. His average bowler's specs are: 17 mph, 350 rpm, 10o axis tilt, 60o axis rotation. I would consider this average bowler to be slighty rev-dominate.
Ron takes issue with using two generic layouts #1 (70 x 3.5 x 20) and #2 (80 x 4.5 x 40) without considering bowler specs; which just happen to be Mo's Layout-A and Layout-C of the 4 simplified SYM layouts. With a general PAP of 5” over, Layout #1 has the issue of the dry track lines rolling over the thumb hole; and Layout #2 having the issue of Pin in the right finger hole which can lead to warranty issues and ball cracking. Ron states that you can't see the dry track lines (on the ball), but I distinctly remember using dry tracks to measure axis migration in the dry area. And, Mo has stated that you should keep the VAL at/over 20 degrees to avoid this problem. Are we talking about the same dry track lines?
Ron goes on to present layouts based on his average bowler spec that relate to the 4 types of ball motion. These layouts avoid the issues of the pin in the finger hole, and tracking over the thumb hole. Remember that Mo is not a fan of pin down layouts in SYM balls, and 3-3/8 Pin-to-PAP falls in Mo's No Zone or Twitch City.
NOTE: There is a typo for the Traction Layout @ 45 x 3-3/8 x 60; it is incorrectly listed as 45 x 3-3/8 x 30 on the summary chart.
Here is my take-away from this presentation:
- The easier the pattern, the less the layout will impact ball performance.
- Layouts are no more than 10% of Total Ball Performance.
- The average bowler may not see much in the way of ball performance difference between the layouts.
- Find layouts that work for your game, but don't overthink it.
This sorta agrees with the conclusions I have come to after going around the block on layouts, and it reflects remarks I have heard from Shockley, Boomershine, et. al. for the AVERAGE bowler. I am beginning to think that the first question to ask a bowler requesting layouts is “What is your sanctioned average?” My KISS principle for the AVERAGE bowler:
The ~180 AVERAGE bowler really doesn't benefit from having multiple layout options; fewer is better; and find that/those few layouts that work best for you from your experience on the conditions you routinely bowl.
Thoughts?
- MegaMav
- Moderator
- Posts: 4694
- Joined: April 27th, 2007, 5:00 am
- THS Average: 225
- Sport Average: 200
- Positive Axis Point: 5.5 Over & 1 Up
- Speed: 16.0 MPH - Camera
- Rev Rate: 375
- Axis Tilt: 14
- Axis Rotation: 45
- Heavy Oil Ball: Radical - Informer
- Medium Oil Ball: Brunswick - Fearless
- Light Oil Ball: Radical - Bonus Pearl
- Preferred Company: Radical Bowling Technologies
- Location: Malta, NY
Re: Video "Bowling Layouts for the Modern Game Part 1"
Its advised if you are drilling near the pin to either adjust to give an inch separation from each drilled hole or drill it out.
It is a cracking risk if you drill too close or partially drill it out. He should have explained it better.
IMO a ball will have more longevity drilling the riser pin out completely since its a weak spot in the ball.
I dont want to throw stones here, but I did point out the 3.5 x 20 to Mo on the facebook page before Ron's video came out asking about dry flare over the thumb hole and he said:
His son also replied.
However, I am not a high rev player and owned a Yeti Unleashed at 3.5 x 20 years ago and saw the same thing.
As far as I'm concerned, I avoid high flare pin to paps with high flare vals on symmetrical balls for all bowlers.
If the bowler needs help getting the ball to move, get them into an asym.
Brunswick/DV8/Radical should change their drill sheets.
It is a cracking risk if you drill too close or partially drill it out. He should have explained it better.
IMO a ball will have more longevity drilling the riser pin out completely since its a weak spot in the ball.
I dont want to throw stones here, but I did point out the 3.5 x 20 to Mo on the facebook page before Ron's video came out asking about dry flare over the thumb hole and he said:
His son also replied.
However, I am not a high rev player and owned a Yeti Unleashed at 3.5 x 20 years ago and saw the same thing.
As far as I'm concerned, I avoid high flare pin to paps with high flare vals on symmetrical balls for all bowlers.
If the bowler needs help getting the ball to move, get them into an asym.
Brunswick/DV8/Radical should change their drill sheets.
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Re: Video "Bowling Layouts for the Modern Game Part 1"
Mav,
I may owe the reading community an apology.
Ron's Layout #2 with pin-in-finger may not be Mo's Layout-C. Ron has the Blueprint snapshot of Layout #2 as 80 x 4.5 x 40, and that appears to be the values entered into Blueprint.
When I model it and draw it out on a bowling ball, it does not put the pin in the finger; and that seems to agree with Mo's information. However, Blueprint says that it actually does with the way Ron setup the software ?? When I model it and mark up a ball, it is actually a 80 x 4.5 x 60 layout that ends up with the pin in the right finger.
What am I doing wrong??
I may owe the reading community an apology.
Ron's Layout #2 with pin-in-finger may not be Mo's Layout-C. Ron has the Blueprint snapshot of Layout #2 as 80 x 4.5 x 40, and that appears to be the values entered into Blueprint.
When I model it and draw it out on a bowling ball, it does not put the pin in the finger; and that seems to agree with Mo's information. However, Blueprint says that it actually does with the way Ron setup the software ?? When I model it and mark up a ball, it is actually a 80 x 4.5 x 60 layout that ends up with the pin in the right finger.
What am I doing wrong??
- MegaMav
- Moderator
- Posts: 4694
- Joined: April 27th, 2007, 5:00 am
- THS Average: 225
- Sport Average: 200
- Positive Axis Point: 5.5 Over & 1 Up
- Speed: 16.0 MPH - Camera
- Rev Rate: 375
- Axis Tilt: 14
- Axis Rotation: 45
- Heavy Oil Ball: Radical - Informer
- Medium Oil Ball: Brunswick - Fearless
- Light Oil Ball: Radical - Bonus Pearl
- Preferred Company: Radical Bowling Technologies
- Location: Malta, NY
Re: Video "Bowling Layouts for the Modern Game Part 1"
I think Ron's point was to not partially drill the pin out.
Re: Video "Bowling Layouts for the Modern Game Part 1"
I gave it try and mapped out the layout 80°x4.5"x40° using the 5">1/2"^ pap he used and my span. The pins are in about the same place in relation to the hole, if my span was just a bit longer it looks like it would match rons simulation spot on.Glenn wrote: ↑December 16th, 2019, 2:24 pm Mav,
I may owe the reading community an apology.
Ron's Layout #2 with pin-in-finger may not be Mo's Layout-C. Ron has the Blueprint snapshot of Layout #2 as 80 x 4.5 x 40, and that appears to be the values entered into Blueprint.
When I model it and draw it out on a bowling ball, it does not put the pin in the finger; and that seems to agree with Mo's information. However, Blueprint says that it actually does with the way Ron setup the software ?? When I model it and mark up a ball, it is actually a 80 x 4.5 x 60 layout that ends up with the pin in the right finger.
What am I doing wrong??
Just guessing but I'd say if you had to use a 60° val angle then you used either a different pap measurement or measured a angle wrong.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
"REMEMBER, it isn't how much the ball hooks, it's where."