Hello! I am new to the site and I am looking to build a ball arsenal that I can bowl in my league and bowl in tournaments. I just registered on the site, but have been guest for a little while and see that you need to start with a benchmark/sweetspot layout and go from there, but I don’t know how to layout a Asym and Sym ball arsenal.
I do plan on learning and getting to know more, but it’s a bit much for me and the proshop I go to, I don’t think understands how to layout balls for an arsenal. I am looking to build a arsenal for multiple lane surfaces and conditions. I currently use Storm and Rotogrip balls. I do understand from reading on this site that the dynamics of a ball (coverstock, RG, Dif, int dif) may dictate certain layouts, but I need help with a starting point for different looks. If I am right I should have about 5 layouts for Asym and about 5 layouts for Sym? Can someone please help me?
My info is:
PAP: 5 ¾” over and ½” up
Right Handed
Speed: 19 off hand, 17 at camera
RR: 280-300
AR: 40-50 deg
AT: 10 deg
Slightly Speed Dominant
Benchmark /Asym/Sym Arsenal Layout Help.............
Moderator: Moderators
- EricHartwell
- Trusted Source
- Posts: 4080
- Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
- Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
- Speed: 16 off hand
- Rev Rate: 330
- Axis Tilt: 12
- Axis Rotation: 45
- Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
- Medium Oil Ball: EVO pearl, True Motion, Columbia Command, DV8 Intimidator
- Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer
- Location: Michigan
Re: Benchmark /Asym/Sym Arsenal Layout Help.............
Welcome to BowlingChatMjones wrote:Hello! I am new to the site and I am looking to build a ball arsenal that I can bowl in my league and bowl in tournaments. I just registered on the site, but have been guest for a little while and see that you need to start with a benchmark/sweetspot layout and go from there, but I don’t know how to layout a Asym and Sym ball arsenal.
I do plan on learning and getting to know more, but it’s a bit much for me and the proshop I go to, I don’t think understands how to layout balls for an arsenal. I am looking to build a arsenal for multiple lane surfaces and conditions. I currently use Storm and Rotogrip balls. I do understand from reading on this site that the dynamics of a ball (coverstock, RG, Dif, int dif) may dictate certain layouts, but I need help with a starting point for different looks. If I am right I should have about 5 layouts for Asym and about 5 layouts for Sym? Can someone please help me?
My info is:
PAP: 5 ¾” over and ½” up
Right Handed
Speed: 19 off hand, 17 at camera
RR: 280-300
AR: 40-50 deg
AT: 10 deg
Slightly Speed Dominant
Yes speed to revs you are slightly speed dominant but your low tilt makes it so that you will be Benchmarked as slightly rev dominant.
Asymmetrical Benchmark 100* total 2:1 Ratio 70-3.75-30
Now it is not a necessity to have 5 Asymmetricals and 5 Symmetricals in an arsenal for it to cover a wide range of conditions. I like to provide what I call the Basic arsenal which actually contains 6 different layouts all based on the Benchmark. I then give the Symmetrical equivalents.
With that said.....
Asymmetrical
Totally Strong ............... 55-4-25
Midlane ....................... 45-4-35
Benchmark................... 70-3.75-30
Long and Strong ........... 85-3.75-35
Control ....................... 70-3.75-50
low flare ..................... 85-2.25-35
Symmetrical (drilling angle to Cg)
Totally Strong .............. Double Thumb
Midlane ...................... 60-4-30 bal hole 1.5" below midline on the VAL
Benchmark ................. 75-4.25-25
Long and Strong .......... Pin next to ring finger Motion Hole
Control ...................... 75-4.25-45
low flare .................... 80-5-35
Remember these are just a basic list, ball choice may necessitate modifications to a layout.
Basically these lists represent a range of usable layouts +/-20* on the totals and +/-.5 on the ratio.
Eric Hartwell
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
Re: Benchmark /Asym/Sym Arsenal Layout Help.............
Eric,
Thank you very much for your help. This is very helpful in helping me layout some equipment.
I do have one question, should I use the control layouts in the SYM and ASYM layouts you listed if I want long and continuous reaction? I am looking for when the heads start to burn and there is carry-down. I need something that will get through the heads clean and keep coming, but not angular.
Thnaks again for your help.
Matt
Thank you very much for your help. This is very helpful in helping me layout some equipment.
I do have one question, should I use the control layouts in the SYM and ASYM layouts you listed if I want long and continuous reaction? I am looking for when the heads start to burn and there is carry-down. I need something that will get through the heads clean and keep coming, but not angular.
Thnaks again for your help.
Matt
Re: Benchmark /Asym/Sym Arsenal Layout Help.............
"EricHartwell"]Welcome to BowlingChat
Yes speed to revs you are slightly speed dominant but your low tilt makes it so that you will be Benchmarked as slightly rev dominant.
Asymmetrical Benchmark 100* total 2:1 Ratio 70-3.75-30
Now it is not a necessity to have 5 Asymmetricals and 5 Symmetricals in an arsenal for it to cover a wide range of conditions. I like to provide what I call the Basic arsenal which actually contains 6 different layouts all based on the Benchmark. I then give the Symmetrical equivalents.
With that said.....
Asymmetrical
Totally Strong ............... 55-4-25
Midlane ....................... 45-4-35
Benchmark................... 70-3.75-30
Long and Strong ........... 85-3.75-35
Control ....................... 70-3.75-50
low flare ..................... 85-2.25-35
Symmetrical (drilling angle to Cg)
Totally Strong .............. Double Thumb
Midlane ...................... 60-4-30 bal hole 1.5" below midline on the VAL
Benchmark ................. 75-4.25-25
Long and Strong .......... Pin next to ring finger Motion Hole
Control ...................... 75-4.25-45
low flare .................... 80-5-35
Remember these are just a basic list, ball choice may necessitate modifications to a layout.
Basically these lists represent a range of usable layouts +/-20* on the totals and +/-.5 on the ratio.[Drilled up a No Rules Pearl 70x3.75x50 and it reacts nice, but still looking for something more continuous Asym or Sym- any suggestions??????]
Yes speed to revs you are slightly speed dominant but your low tilt makes it so that you will be Benchmarked as slightly rev dominant.
Asymmetrical Benchmark 100* total 2:1 Ratio 70-3.75-30
Now it is not a necessity to have 5 Asymmetricals and 5 Symmetricals in an arsenal for it to cover a wide range of conditions. I like to provide what I call the Basic arsenal which actually contains 6 different layouts all based on the Benchmark. I then give the Symmetrical equivalents.
With that said.....
Asymmetrical
Totally Strong ............... 55-4-25
Midlane ....................... 45-4-35
Benchmark................... 70-3.75-30
Long and Strong ........... 85-3.75-35
Control ....................... 70-3.75-50
low flare ..................... 85-2.25-35
Symmetrical (drilling angle to Cg)
Totally Strong .............. Double Thumb
Midlane ...................... 60-4-30 bal hole 1.5" below midline on the VAL
Benchmark ................. 75-4.25-25
Long and Strong .......... Pin next to ring finger Motion Hole
Control ...................... 75-4.25-45
low flare .................... 80-5-35
Remember these are just a basic list, ball choice may necessitate modifications to a layout.
Basically these lists represent a range of usable layouts +/-20* on the totals and +/-.5 on the ratio.[Drilled up a No Rules Pearl 70x3.75x50 and it reacts nice, but still looking for something more continuous Asym or Sym- any suggestions??????]
- EricHartwell
- Trusted Source
- Posts: 4080
- Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
- Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
- Speed: 16 off hand
- Rev Rate: 330
- Axis Tilt: 12
- Axis Rotation: 45
- Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
- Medium Oil Ball: EVO pearl, True Motion, Columbia Command, DV8 Intimidator
- Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer
- Location: Michigan
Re: Benchmark /Asym/Sym Arsenal Layout Help.............
Shorter pin to PAP on Asyms will give you more continuation.Mjones wrote:Drilled up a No Rules Pearl 70x3.75x50 and it reacts nice, but still looking for something more continuous Asym or Sym- any suggestions??????
Asymmetrical low flare 85-2.25-35 is for dryer lane conditions,
To handle some oil you could go with an Asym drilled 80-2.75-40
Eric Hartwell
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
Re: Benchmark /Asym/Sym Arsenal Layout Help.............
"EricHartwell-
Shorter pin to PAP on Asyms will give you more continuation.
Asymmetrical low flare 85-2.25-35 is for dryer lane conditions,
To handle some oil you could go with an Asym drilled 80-2.75-40
Would a 80x4 1/2x 45 work for more continuous on a Sym ball?
Shorter pin to PAP on Asyms will give you more continuation.
Asymmetrical low flare 85-2.25-35 is for dryer lane conditions,
To handle some oil you could go with an Asym drilled 80-2.75-40
Would a 80x4 1/2x 45 work for more continuous on a Sym ball?
- EricHartwell
- Trusted Source
- Posts: 4080
- Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
- Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
- Speed: 16 off hand
- Rev Rate: 330
- Axis Tilt: 12
- Axis Rotation: 45
- Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
- Medium Oil Ball: EVO pearl, True Motion, Columbia Command, DV8 Intimidator
- Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer
- Location: Michigan
Re: Benchmark /Asym/Sym Arsenal Layout Help.............
It would depend on the ball. Yes for a lower differential ball (.020-.030). A higher differential ball (>.050) I would push the Pin to PAP out to 5-5 1/4"Mjones wrote:Would a 80x4 1/2x 45 work for more continuous on a Sym ball?
The larger the VAL angle the more continuous the hook zone becomes.
Eric Hartwell
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
- spmcgivern
- Member
- Posts: 554
- Joined: February 28th, 2011, 7:53 pm
- THS Average: 225
- Positive Axis Point: 4 3/4" and 1/4" up
- Speed: 17-18 at pindeck
- Rev Rate: 400
- Location: Houston, TX
Re: Benchmark /Asym/Sym Arsenal Layout Help.............
Out of curiosity, is the correct term "continuous hook zone" or "longer hook zone"? I have used larger VAL angle before and the hook zone is long and if the ball does not finish its hook it is DOA.EricHartwell wrote:
It would depend on the ball. Yes for a lower differential ball (.020-.030). A higher differential ball (>.050) I would push the Pin to PAP out to 5-5 1/4"
The larger the VAL angle the more continuous the hook zone becomes.
For me, I use larger VAL angles when I will see earlier friction to try and delay the roll phase as long as possible. If I use larger VAL angles on longer oil I will leave 10s and 7s all day long.
- EricHartwell
- Trusted Source
- Posts: 4080
- Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
- Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
- Speed: 16 off hand
- Rev Rate: 330
- Axis Tilt: 12
- Axis Rotation: 45
- Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
- Medium Oil Ball: EVO pearl, True Motion, Columbia Command, DV8 Intimidator
- Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer
- Location: Michigan
Re: Benchmark /Asym/Sym Arsenal Layout Help.............
Continuous, continuation and adjectives of the like are another way of describing a ball shape with a longer hook zone.spmcgivern wrote:
Out of curiosity, is the correct term "continuous hook zone" or "longer hook zone"? I have used larger VAL angle before and the hook zone is long and if the ball does not finish its hook it is DOA.
For me, I use larger VAL angles when I will see earlier friction to try and delay the roll phase as long as possible. If I use larger VAL angles on longer oil I will leave 10s and 7s all day long.
You make a ggod point about having a hook zone that is too long not enabling the ball to transition into a roll before hitting the pins. Another side effct is too many boards covered, too much hook. Forcing you to play further inside than you really need.
Eric Hartwell
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
Re: Benchmark /Asym/Sym Arsenal Layout Help.............
EricHartwell"]"MjonesWould a 80x4 1/2x 45 work for more continuous on a Sym ball?[/quote]
It would depend on the ball. Yes for a lower differential ball (.020-.030). A higher differential ball (>.050) I would push the Pin to PAP out to 5-5 1/4"
The larger the VAL angle the more continuous the hook zone becomes.[/quote]
Thanks! I just drilled a Rocket Ship and it is exactly what I was looking for even though it has a high diff its still strong with that layout- doesn't burn.
It would depend on the ball. Yes for a lower differential ball (.020-.030). A higher differential ball (>.050) I would push the Pin to PAP out to 5-5 1/4"
The larger the VAL angle the more continuous the hook zone becomes.[/quote]
Thanks! I just drilled a Rocket Ship and it is exactly what I was looking for even though it has a high diff its still strong with that layout- doesn't burn.