beat the carrydown
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beat the carrydown
Hi All: To beat the carrydown at league,which occurs by 2nd game,after hour practice & the first game.
Got a GURU @15#4ozs., 3-4 pin,3.2ozs.TW. Thinking a more aggressive ball to get thru the carry down & use for the last 2 games. My V2 solid works good for the 1st game,which is usually my highest scoring game.
I bowl straight up 10 board on non-wood lanes. I have trouble moving left and carrying the 10 pin, prefer to stay in my comfort zone.
I am thinking Of Radical's 70x5x70 layout. What does everybody think?
My specs, 14-15mph(hand), 14tilt,40-50rotation, Senior bowler(75), 190avg.,
Thanks all for your help!
Got a GURU @15#4ozs., 3-4 pin,3.2ozs.TW. Thinking a more aggressive ball to get thru the carry down & use for the last 2 games. My V2 solid works good for the 1st game,which is usually my highest scoring game.
I bowl straight up 10 board on non-wood lanes. I have trouble moving left and carrying the 10 pin, prefer to stay in my comfort zone.
I am thinking Of Radical's 70x5x70 layout. What does everybody think?
My specs, 14-15mph(hand), 14tilt,40-50rotation, Senior bowler(75), 190avg.,
Thanks all for your help!
Re: beat the carrydown
What is the layout on the V2?
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PAP 3 3/4"
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* RPM
AR *
AT *
PAP 3 3/4"
(* rebuilding)
“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.”
― Neil deGrasse Tyson
- MegaMav
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Re: beat the carrydown
Add surface and roll it, not turn it, or spin it, on top of the outer edge of the carry down as direct as possible.
Likely straight up 12-13-14 area depending upon how bad it is.
Thats how I beat it. Its not easy to do and it takes practice. It can be done. 699 Tuesday doing just that.
Proprietors that are reading this:
This is what happens when you overblock lanes and drop the reverse brush TOO EARLY in the cycle.
Balls must have time to slow down IN THE PATTERN to get good ball motion and avoid this carrydown issue.
Start blending patterns front to back to avoid this problem.
The "carrydown doesnt exist on modern lanes" is a load of BS, walk down the lanes and see for yourself when lanes get tight and balls are later and later. ITS NOT "BURNING UP" if the ball doesnt complete the hook phase.
Likely straight up 12-13-14 area depending upon how bad it is.
Thats how I beat it. Its not easy to do and it takes practice. It can be done. 699 Tuesday doing just that.
Proprietors that are reading this:
This is what happens when you overblock lanes and drop the reverse brush TOO EARLY in the cycle.
Balls must have time to slow down IN THE PATTERN to get good ball motion and avoid this carrydown issue.
Start blending patterns front to back to avoid this problem.
The "carrydown doesnt exist on modern lanes" is a load of BS, walk down the lanes and see for yourself when lanes get tight and balls are later and later. ITS NOT "BURNING UP" if the ball doesnt complete the hook phase.
- rrb6699
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Re: beat the carrydown
.....or stay in the skid phase too long.
if you know you are throwing the ball well (fairly consistent) and you go from strikes to taps then you can make the change you think will work. thats why throwing and maintaining consistency is the best recipe for success.
if you know you are throwing the ball well (fairly consistent) and you go from strikes to taps then you can make the change you think will work. thats why throwing and maintaining consistency is the best recipe for success.
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Re: beat the carrydown
In response to Dustin's ?. The V2 layout is-70x5x35, no bh.
Still looking for layout help on my new GURU,as to be able to use it on THS!
Thanks guys!
Still looking for layout help on my new GURU,as to be able to use it on THS!
Thanks guys!
Re: beat the carrydown
I don't see your rev rate listed. Your V2 is at a total of 105 with a 2:1 ratio so going 70 x 5 x 70 will be a little lazy on the end. Consider lowering the ration 60 x 5 x 40. Reason for not carrying the 10 as you move in the the larger amount of oil in the middle and your ball going to long with the 70* drill angle. If you have your rev rate we can be more accurate with a layout.
* MPH @ aarows
* RPM
AR *
AT *
PAP 3 3/4"
(* rebuilding)
“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.”
― Neil deGrasse Tyson
* RPM
AR *
AT *
PAP 3 3/4"
(* rebuilding)
“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.”
― Neil deGrasse Tyson
- scotts33
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Re: beat the carrydown
IMO Eric is correct....."Add surface and roll it, not turn it, or spin it, on top of the outer edge of the carry down as direct as possible.
Likely straight up 12-13-14 area depending upon how bad it is.
That's how I beat it. Its not easy to do and it takes practice. It can be done. 699 Tuesday doing just that
Some balls (layout) will help BUT it's the technique used and the bowler NOT the ball except.... MORE for surface.
Likely straight up 12-13-14 area depending upon how bad it is.
That's how I beat it. Its not easy to do and it takes practice. It can be done. 699 Tuesday doing just that
Some balls (layout) will help BUT it's the technique used and the bowler NOT the ball except.... MORE for surface.
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Re: beat the carrydown
Dustin, Rev Rate runs 240-250!
- EricHartwell
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Re: beat the carrydown
I'm with Dustin, I think the 140* total on your suggested 70-5-70 layout is a bit much.mergy wrote:Still looking for layout help on my new GURU,as to be able to use it on THS!
I always start by figuring your Benchmark ..... 60-4-40
60-4-60 is a Control layout for your specs. Usually a good choice for THS. But...
With your V2 drilled 70-5-35 I don't think drilling the Guru with that control layout will compliment it very well for the purpose you intend.
I suggest drilling the Guru 70-5.25-55 (pin in the middle finger)
Depending on your PAP and grip span, Pin to PAP and VAL angle may change slightly to drill the pin out completely.
Eric Hartwell
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
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- Posts: 147
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Re: beat the carrydown
Thanks guys, I'll try that layout and let you know the results!
BTW, PAP is 4 7/8 over by 3/4 up(RH) make any difference in your layout numbers for the GURU?
BTW, PAP is 4 7/8 over by 3/4 up(RH) make any difference in your layout numbers for the GURU?
- EricHartwell
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Re: beat the carrydown
So for it doesn't need any modification.
Do you know what your middle finger span is?
If it is less than 4-1/4" cut to cut then the VAL angle will need to be made larger to drill the pin out completely.
Do you know what your middle finger span is?
If it is less than 4-1/4" cut to cut then the VAL angle will need to be made larger to drill the pin out completely.
Eric Hartwell
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
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Re: beat the carrydown
Middle finger span is 4", that help?
- EricHartwell
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Re: beat the carrydown
70-5.25-57
Eric Hartwell
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
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- Member
- Posts: 147
- Joined: February 5th, 2010, 12:44 pm
- THS Average: 200
- Positive Axis Point: 5>1^
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- Axis Rotation: 47
Re: beat the carrydown
Thanks, will try the layout!
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Re: beat the carrydown
Eric, pin is 3.25, CG is left of Center 1.25 do you see any problems with the pin in the Middle finger layout on the Guru or is everything good to go with layout as you stated earlier?
- EricHartwell
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- Medium Oil Ball: EVO pearl, True Motion, Columbia Command, DV8 Intimidator
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- Location: Michigan
Re: beat the carrydown
Good thing we are talking this out. That is not a good thing. The Cg will end up on the negative side of your grip.mergy wrote:Eric, pin is 3.25, CG is left of Center 1.25 do you see any problems with the pin in the Middle finger layout on the Guru or is everything good to go with layout as you stated earlier?
Time to re-evaluate.
Have your driller draw up the 70-5.25-57 and weight it to see how the static weights end up.
With the Cg offset like it is a layout with a shorter pin to PAP or a lower ratio would be easiest to maintain legal static weight.
Thinking out loud here...
Option 1: Lower the Drill angle to move the Cg.... 40-5.25-57
This will get the ball started sooner and get it to roll over the carrydown. Not a bad option for what you are looking for.
Option 2:A shorter pin to PAP layout will cover boards and have a continuous hook motion. Not what you are looking for to stay in your comfort zone. But, it would be a good layout to move your feet left and hook the ball around the carry down.... 70-2.75-35
Option 3: A lower ratio sport layout could be the ticket for you. When I model layouts with a 70* VAL and 5" pin to PAP the pin is only about 1/4" from your middle finger hole..... 40-5.5-70
use a P4 balance hole if it weighs out with too much thumb weight.
Option 4: 60-4.25-60 pin in the ring finger Control layout. This would be My personal preference without regard to what you are looking for. Another way to play around the carrydown.
As for making a recommendation to give you what you want, Option 1 ... 40-5.5-57
An early forward rolling layout. Play the lane as MegaMav suggested.
Eric Hartwell
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
-
- Member
- Posts: 147
- Joined: February 5th, 2010, 12:44 pm
- THS Average: 200
- Positive Axis Point: 5>1^
- Speed: 16 offhand
- Rev Rate: 240
- Axis Tilt: 15
- Axis Rotation: 47
Re: beat the carrydown
So, after talking to my ball driller, we ended up with a layout of 60x4x50,sorta control for a strong ball.
At league,3 game set, fresh ths, Played inside more than I ever played,16,17 board @ arrows to 6,7 @ BP. Ball recovered & turned the corner great. Ended up 226.
2nd game,transition & carrydown,was missing right at beginning,so moved right & straighter & a little more speed & started more x's. ended up- 194.
3rd game, still with the new GURU,as I wanted to get some mileage on the ball, playing up 7,8,9, leaving corner pins,7&10's, had 2 open frames, ended up 180.
I think this ball is what I can use inside & Swing it or up the boards,with more speed!
Thanx for the help guys!
At league,3 game set, fresh ths, Played inside more than I ever played,16,17 board @ arrows to 6,7 @ BP. Ball recovered & turned the corner great. Ended up 226.
2nd game,transition & carrydown,was missing right at beginning,so moved right & straighter & a little more speed & started more x's. ended up- 194.
3rd game, still with the new GURU,as I wanted to get some mileage on the ball, playing up 7,8,9, leaving corner pins,7&10's, had 2 open frames, ended up 180.
I think this ball is what I can use inside & Swing it or up the boards,with more speed!
Thanx for the help guys!