Is this ball double thumb safe?

Which layout is right for me?

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply
bowler001
Pro Shop
Pro Shop
Posts: 42
Joined: January 29th, 2010, 12:24 am
Preferred Company: BRUNSWICK!!!!!

Is this ball double thumb safe?

Post by bowler001 » January 31st, 2010, 1:17 am

Have a symmetrical ball with 3.5 oz top. Pin-cg is 3.5" so right on the verge of being too short of the recommended. After laying the ball out with the double thumb, (62* drill angle), the cg lies 1/2" above midline and 2" right of center of grip. Im concerned side statics may not be legal after drilling. Any input? I have one of WRW jr's balls here in the shop (souvenir) with the DT layout and his hole is 2" right of thumb, possibly because the cg was right out of line? Is this an option to elminate extra side weight? I'm also concerned with finger weight since cg is above midline and combining IT thumb and weight hole may cause excess fingerweight.


Thanks in advance! This is sooo helpful.

User avatar
Mo Pinel
Trusted Source
Trusted Source
Posts: 10054
Joined: January 26th, 2010, 6:10 pm
Preferred Company: MoRich, & now RADICAL BT

Re: Is this ball double thumb safe?

Post by Mo Pinel » January 31st, 2010, 1:53 am

bowler001 wrote:Have a symmetrical ball with 3.5 oz top. Pin-cg is 3.5" so right on the verge of being too short of the recommended. After laying the ball out with the double thumb, (62* drill angle), the cg lies 1/2" above midline and 2" right of center of grip. Im concerned side statics may not be legal after drilling. Any input? I have one of WRW jr's balls here in the shop (souvenir) with the DT layout and his hole is 2" right of thumb, possibly because the cg was right out of line? Is this an option to elminate extra side weight? I'm also concerned with finger weight since cg is above midline and combining IT thumb and weight hole may cause excess fingerweight.


Thanks in advance! This is sooo helpful.
Ball will definitely work, especially if you use grips. Drill the fingers 3 1/4" deep and do standard DT layout.

charlest
Member
Member
Posts: 267
Joined: June 25th, 2009, 11:15 pm

Re: Is this ball double thumb safe?

Post by charlest » January 31st, 2010, 2:49 am

Mo Pinel wrote: Ball will definitely work, especially if you use grips. Drill the fingers 3 1/4" deep and do standard DT layout.
Mo,

Given he started with 3.5 oz of top wt., probably removing 2.5 oz for thumb and finger inserts and removing an ounce or more for the weight hole .... (removing xxx oz. {I have no idea} for drilling a 3.25" deep finger holes)
If, after drilling the finger holes that deep AND adding the weight hole near the thumb, you wind up with bottom weight (yes,I know it's a "static"), how much "static" thumb weight do you have to have before you worry about it affecting the ball's reaction, if any?

Will it ever be a concern? even it reaches the USBC limit of 3 ounces?
Right handed
Speed: 13.5 -14.5 at pin deck
Rev Rate: 275 - 350
Axis rotation: 45*
Axis tilt: 17*
PAP: 5" x 0"

bowler001
Pro Shop
Pro Shop
Posts: 42
Joined: January 29th, 2010, 12:24 am
Preferred Company: BRUNSWICK!!!!!

Re: Is this ball double thumb safe?

Post by bowler001 » January 31st, 2010, 3:42 am

Thanks a lot Mo!

User avatar
Mo Pinel
Trusted Source
Trusted Source
Posts: 10054
Joined: January 26th, 2010, 6:10 pm
Preferred Company: MoRich, & now RADICAL BT

Re: Is this ball double thumb safe?

Post by Mo Pinel » January 31st, 2010, 8:09 am

charlest wrote:

Mo,

Given he started with 3.5 oz of top wt., probably removing 2.5 oz for thumb and finger inserts and removing an ounce or more for the weight hole .... (removing xxx oz. {I have no idea} for drilling a 3.25" deep finger holes)
If, after drilling the finger holes that deep AND adding the weight hole near the thumb, you wind up with bottom weight (yes,I know it's a "static"), how much "static" thumb weight do you have to have before you worry about it affecting the ball's reaction, if any?

Will it ever be a concern? even it reaches the USBC limit of 3 ounces?
Not a concern in either case. This is bowling chat, not BBE!

charlest
Member
Member
Posts: 267
Joined: June 25th, 2009, 11:15 pm

Re: Is this ball double thumb safe?

Post by charlest » January 31st, 2010, 9:01 pm

not really funny, Mo.

I guess there is such a thing as as stupid question.
Right handed
Speed: 13.5 -14.5 at pin deck
Rev Rate: 275 - 350
Axis rotation: 45*
Axis tilt: 17*
PAP: 5" x 0"

User avatar
Mo Pinel
Trusted Source
Trusted Source
Posts: 10054
Joined: January 26th, 2010, 6:10 pm
Preferred Company: MoRich, & now RADICAL BT

Re: Is this ball double thumb safe?

Post by Mo Pinel » January 31st, 2010, 9:33 pm

charlest wrote:not really funny, Mo.

I guess there is such a thing as as stupid question.
I've talked to RevZ about this comment. We're OK with it. I guess it was a little bad taste on my part. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. My bad.

User avatar
Mo Pinel
Trusted Source
Trusted Source
Posts: 10054
Joined: January 26th, 2010, 6:10 pm
Preferred Company: MoRich, & now RADICAL BT

Re: Is this ball double thumb safe?

Post by Mo Pinel » January 31st, 2010, 10:16 pm

Now that I've committed my first faux pas, I should address how I determine if the Double Thumb balance hole might possibly be a problem as far as static weight legality is concerned. If there is a 1/4 oz. of finger weight or less after drilling (before the balance hole) and increasing the finger hole depth, if necessary, then there will be no problem with a Double Thumb balance hole. If there ia thumb weight before the balance hole, that's preferred. Don't drill the fingers deeper unless there is more than 1/4 oz. of finger weight before the balance hole because we only want to drill the finger holes as deep as we have to to maximize the increase in dynamics. Normal finger depth is around 2" with inserts.

I have pointed out for years that long pin, medium to low top undrilled balls are the most versatile to drill. MoRich has intentionally targeted a longer pin out distance in manufacturing so more longer pin balls will be manufactured. Our target in manufacturing is 2.5 oz top weight and the pin 3.5" out to be exact.

By the way, I'll try to minimize my faux pas.

bowler001
Pro Shop
Pro Shop
Posts: 42
Joined: January 29th, 2010, 12:24 am
Preferred Company: BRUNSWICK!!!!!

Re: Is this ball double thumb safe?

Post by bowler001 » February 1st, 2010, 4:45 pm

Mo Pinel wrote:Now that I've committed my first faux pas, I should address how I determine if the Double Thumb balance hole might possibly be a problem as far as static weight legality is concerned. If there is a 1/4 oz. of finger weight or less after drilling (before the balance hole) and increasing the finger hole depth, if necessary, then there will be no problem with a Double Thumb balance hole. If there ia thumb weight before the balance hole, that's preferred. Don't drill the fingers deeper unless there is more than 1/4 oz. of finger weight before the balance hole because we only want to drill the finger holes as deep as we have to to maximize the increase in dynamics. Normal finger depth is around 2" with inserts.

I have pointed out for years that long pin, medium to low top undrilled balls are the most versatile to drill. MoRich has intentionally targeted a longer pin out distance in manufacturing so more longer pin balls will be manufactured. Our target in manufacturing is 2.5 oz top weight and the pin 3.5" out to be exact.

By the way, I'll try to minimize my faux pas.
My main concern was sideweight. It seems to me, with the cg shifted 2" right of center, and the weight hole being around 3.5-4" away, only 2-2.5" right of centerline, that it might not get the positive side weight back to legal.

Another thought, was what about drilling middle finger normal depth, and drilling the ring finger deep enough to remove excess finger weight and ,possibly, a little side weight. My guess is this ball will be around 1/2 oz finger weight (before balance hole, normal finger depth).

User avatar
Mo Pinel
Trusted Source
Trusted Source
Posts: 10054
Joined: January 26th, 2010, 6:10 pm
Preferred Company: MoRich, & now RADICAL BT

Re: Is this ball double thumb safe?

Post by Mo Pinel » February 1st, 2010, 4:53 pm

bowler001 wrote: My main concern was sideweight. It seems to me, with the cg shifted 2" right of center, and the weight hole being around 3.5-4" away, only 2-2.5" right of centerline, that it might not get the positive side weight back to legal.

Another thought, was what about drilling middle finger normal depth, and drilling the ring finger deep enough to remove excess finger weight and ,possibly, a little side weight. My guess is this ball will be around 1/2 oz finger weight (before balance hole, normal finger depth).
Good thought process on the finger depths. With the cg right of the pin to spin line, drill the MF 2" deep and the RF 4" deep. Check for finger and side weight and we'll go from there.

bowler001
Pro Shop
Pro Shop
Posts: 42
Joined: January 29th, 2010, 12:24 am
Preferred Company: BRUNSWICK!!!!!

Re: Is this ball double thumb safe?

Post by bowler001 » February 1st, 2010, 5:05 pm

Mo Pinel wrote:
Good thought process on the finger depths. With the cg right of the pin to spin line, drill the MF 2" deep and the RF 4" deep. Check for finger and side weight and we'll go from there.
First, let me take in this moment...............ok.....i'm good now. lol.

Any initial thoughts on the size of the balance hole? Is there a recommended size and depth?

User avatar
Mo Pinel
Trusted Source
Trusted Source
Posts: 10054
Joined: January 26th, 2010, 6:10 pm
Preferred Company: MoRich, & now RADICAL BT

Re: Is this ball double thumb safe?

Post by Mo Pinel » February 1st, 2010, 7:15 pm

bowler001 wrote: First, let me take in this moment...............ok.....i'm good now. lol.

Any initial thoughts on the size of the balance hole? Is there a recommended size and depth?
As big as finger weight will allow to maximize ball reaction. Let me know the finger and side weights after drilling the fingers the depths that I suggested and we can decide on the size of the balance hole. If you want to go slowly, start at a 3/4" hole, 2 3/4" deep because of the depths of the RF hole. Increase the size if necessary, not exceeding the legal finger weight.

bowler001
Pro Shop
Pro Shop
Posts: 42
Joined: January 29th, 2010, 12:24 am
Preferred Company: BRUNSWICK!!!!!

Re: Is this ball double thumb safe?

Post by bowler001 » February 1st, 2010, 9:09 pm

Mo Pinel wrote:
As big as finger weight will allow to maximize ball reaction. Let me know the finger and side weights after drilling the fingers the depths that I suggested and we can decide on the size of the balance hole. If you want to go slowly, start at a 3/4" hole, 2 3/4" deep because of the depths of the RF hole. Increase the size if necessary, not exceeding the legal finger weight.
Will do. Hoping to put some holes in it tonight. If not, later this week.

Thanks again Mo. I am very appreciative to get your input. I can only imagine how much work it is keeping up with all the questions.

bowler001
Pro Shop
Pro Shop
Posts: 42
Joined: January 29th, 2010, 12:24 am
Preferred Company: BRUNSWICK!!!!!

Re: Is this ball double thumb safe?

Post by bowler001 » February 5th, 2010, 11:59 pm

Mo,

Went ahead and punched the ball up. Side weight is 1-1/4 oz, finger weight 1/8 oz (yay!). Was thinking it is safe to do the 3/4" hole 2-3/4" deep to start. Let me know if you think bigger or smaller.

Thanks !!!!!!!

User avatar
Mo Pinel
Trusted Source
Trusted Source
Posts: 10054
Joined: January 26th, 2010, 6:10 pm
Preferred Company: MoRich, & now RADICAL BT

Re: Is this ball double thumb safe?

Post by Mo Pinel » February 6th, 2010, 12:03 am

bowler001 wrote:Mo,

Went ahead and punched the ball up. Side weight is 1-1/4 oz, finger weight 1/8 oz (yay!). Was thinking it is safe to do the 3/4" hole 2-3/4" deep to start. Let me know if you think bigger or smaller.

Thanks !!!!!!!
Start with 13/16" 2 3/4" deep. I think you may be able to go bigger, but start there. Let me know the final size and statics. OK?

bowler001
Pro Shop
Pro Shop
Posts: 42
Joined: January 29th, 2010, 12:24 am
Preferred Company: BRUNSWICK!!!!!

Re: Is this ball double thumb safe?

Post by bowler001 » February 6th, 2010, 12:07 am

Mo Pinel wrote: Start with 13/16" 2 3/4" deep. I think you may be able to go bigger, but start there. Let me know the final size and statics. OK?
"bigger" as in diameter, or deeper?

User avatar
Mo Pinel
Trusted Source
Trusted Source
Posts: 10054
Joined: January 26th, 2010, 6:10 pm
Preferred Company: MoRich, & now RADICAL BT

Re: Is this ball double thumb safe?

Post by Mo Pinel » February 6th, 2010, 12:13 am

bowler001 wrote: "bigger" as in diameter, or deeper?
"Bigger" is diameter; deeper? Ask your significant other about that!

User avatar
kellytehuna
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 2891
Joined: January 18th, 2010, 11:11 pm
THS Average: 195
Positive Axis Point: 3.75", 1" up
Speed: 18
Rev Rate: 480
Axis Tilt: 17
Axis Rotation: 40
Heavy Oil Ball: Morich DestroyR
Medium Oil Ball: Morich Perpetual Motion
Light Oil Ball: Morich Mojave
Preferred Company: Morich
Location: Hazard, KY

Re: Is this ball double thumb safe?

Post by kellytehuna » February 6th, 2010, 12:28 am

Mo Pinel wrote:"Bigger" is diameter; deeper? Ask your significant other about that!
LMAO! :lol:
Father, Husband, Bowler, Web developer

15lb Morich DestroyR, Mania, Perpetual Motion, Craze, Frenzy, Mojave
15lb Radical Yeti
15lb Brunswick Slingshot, Avalanche Urethane

Highest score: 279
Highest series: 818

bowler001
Pro Shop
Pro Shop
Posts: 42
Joined: January 29th, 2010, 12:24 am
Preferred Company: BRUNSWICK!!!!!

Re: Is this ball double thumb safe?

Post by bowler001 » February 6th, 2010, 11:39 pm

Mo Pinel wrote:
"Bigger" is diameter; deeper? Ask your significant other about that!
Didn't realize you were a comedian also Mo. haha. It did make me laugh though. Maybe you have another option if this bowling deal doesn't work out. hahahaha. Now THAT's funny! :D

As for final statics, 1/2 oz side, 3/4 oz finger. 13/16 hole, 2-3/4" deep. That's with a 1-3/8 Vise IT. Finger depths came out to, as expected, 2" middle, 4" ring.

Thanks for all the help Mo. If you are curious what flare seperation or anything else ends up looking like, let me know.

User avatar
Mo Pinel
Trusted Source
Trusted Source
Posts: 10054
Joined: January 26th, 2010, 6:10 pm
Preferred Company: MoRich, & now RADICAL BT

Re: Is this ball double thumb safe?

Post by Mo Pinel » February 7th, 2010, 12:47 am

bowler001 wrote: Didn't realize you were a comedian also Mo. haha. It did make me laugh though. Maybe you have another option if this bowling deal doesn't work out. hahahaha. Now THAT's funny! :D

As for final statics, 1/2 oz side, 3/4 oz finger. 13/16 hole, 2-3/4" deep. That's with a 1-3/8 Vise IT. Finger depths came out to, as expected, 2" middle, 4" ring.

Thanks for all the help Mo. If you are curious what flare seperation or anything else ends up looking like, let me know.
Please report all your observations and results. They will be informative the our entire audience.

Post Reply