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 Post subject: Ebonite Bowler ID shocked me
 Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2015 5:42 pm Post Number: #1 Post
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I had thursday the chance to test Bowler ID in a Columbia,Track, Hammer seminar here in Germany. And I was shocked about the results. Over years i measured my specs over and over again and used it to layout my balls.

my old specs are: tilt 13°, rot 55°, revs 300 speed 17mph PAP: 5 3/16 over, 7/8 up
BIT: tilt 9°, rot 65°, revs 254, speed 15.9mph PAP 6 1/8 over 1 1/8 up
Spoiler:
Attachment:
specsBIT.jpg

Most critical i think is the tilt with av 9° it burn up much faster as with 13. do you think so too???
here the recorded BIT tilt numbers: 10,7°,14,2°,3,2°,9,9°,12,9°,6,4°,6,3°


Thomas


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 Post subject: Re: Ebonite Bowler ID shocked me
 Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2015 9:36 pm Post Number: #2 Post
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The Fit has a huge bearing on my tilt. Demo days can be a waste of time if you don't throw your own equipment and a benchmark.
Were your specs measured with your own equipment or demo balls ?

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Axis Rotation 40 - 90
Axis Tilt - 14
PAP - 5" over, 1/2 up


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 Post subject: Re: Ebonite Bowler ID shocked me
 Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2015 7:39 am Post Number: #3 Post
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Demo balls. They used a Columbia300 Scout/R black. It just have a pancake core. I was not able to hook it more than 2 boards. They said its too difficult/inacurate at the moment to drill a installation hole @ the right place in own balls. The position of the installation hole was looking like the 60° point for spinning @ DeTerminator.
I will recheck my specs with my equipment.
With my Guru mighty the tape stays stable @ my old PAP and it revs many.

Thomas

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 Post subject: Re: Ebonite Bowler ID shocked me
 Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2015 9:03 am Post Number: #4 Post
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Nsane wrote:
Demo balls. They used a Columbia300 Scout/R black. It just have a pancake core. I was not able to hook it more than 2 boards. They said its too difficult/inacurate at the moment to drill a installation hole @ the right place in own balls. The position of the installation hole was looking like the 60° point for spinning @ DeTerminator.
I will recheck my specs with my equipment.
With my Guru mighty the tape stays stable @ my old PAP and it revs many.

Thomas



Keep in mind that the difference you are seeing is probably based on the ball you have to throw with the EBI accelerometer. It doesn't work accurately with flaring bowling balls. The real world measurements are accurate. If you can measure tilt by measuring the distance across the track and check the PAP with tape, then that's accurate with that ball.


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 Post subject: Re: Ebonite Bowler ID shocked me
 Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2015 9:14 am Post Number: #5 Post
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thanks mo! Thats soothe me.
But whats about the revrate?? Ok it would be no issue because I stay mached. But are they accurate??? A lower Tilt need a longer way to rotate, so the revrate goes down.

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 Post subject: Re: Ebonite Bowler ID shocked me
 Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2015 12:51 pm Post Number: #6 Post
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Nsane wrote:
thanks mo! Thats soothe me.
But whats about the revrate?? Ok it would be no issue because I stay mached. But are they accurate??? A lower Tilt need a longer way to rotate, so the revrate goes down.


Again measured with that ball. Put 1000 on that ball and see if the rev rate changes is the only way to check it. I don't know how their system calculates it.


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 Post subject: Re: Ebonite Bowler ID shocked me
 Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2015 1:29 pm Post Number: #7 Post
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Nsane wrote:

my old specs are: tilt 13°, rot 55°, revs 300 speed 17mph PAP: 5 3/16 over, 7/8 up
BIT: tilt 9°, rot 65°, revs 254, speed 15.9mph PAP 6 1/8 over 1 1/8 up



Other than the big difference in PAP measurements and rotation (which the difference I assume is because of using a demo ball with a adjustable grip affecting the release)

Depending on how and when the original spec's. were measured, Those measurements are not that different.

Speed: a 1.1mph difference.
Rev's: a 64 rpm difference.
Rotation: a 10° difference
Tilt: a 4° difference

While we might not know how accurate the Bowlers ID is, We don't know how accurately the original measurements were done/are either.

The real comparison would have been to have taken the spec. measurements from the demo ball using the (old) standard methods at the same time you were doing the bowler ID measurements.

Then compared those measurements to each other. That would have gave you a better idea of what you were doing with that ball.

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 Post subject: Re: Ebonite Bowler ID shocked me
 Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2015 4:13 pm Post Number: #8 Post
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bowl1820 wrote:

Other than the big difference in PAP measurements and rotation (which the difference I assume is because of using a demo ball with a adjustable grip affecting the release)

Depending on how and when the original spec's. were measured, Those measurements are not that different.

Speed: a 1.1mph difference.
Rev's: a 64 rpm difference.
Rotation: a 10° difference
Tilt: a 4° difference

While we might not know how accurate the Bowlers ID is, We don't know how accurately the original measurements were done/are either.

The real comparison would have been to have taken the spec. measurements from the demo ball using the (old) standard methods at the same time you were doing the bowler ID measurements.

Then compared those measurements to each other. That would have gave you a better idea of what you were doing with that ball.


ONE MORE IMPORTANT FACTOR: The Demo ball did NOT have your grip in it. The one you measured DID.


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 Post subject: Re: Ebonite Bowler ID shocked me
 Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2015 11:13 pm Post Number: #9 Post
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I recently went to a ball demo with new gear from all major manufacturers.

I've been using 3/8" Forward in my thumb, with a RF span that is 3/16" longer than MF.
Demo balls typically have 1/4" Reverse in the thumb, and equal span lengths.
Every ball I threw felt like garbage: they all released early, and didn't rev nearly as much as my normal release.

By the time I made it to the Ebonite Bowler ID station, I just ignored them as I knew a bad fit would give me useless results.

You can't even compare coverstock strength, as the condition of the covers is unknown. We hosted a demo a year ago and the balls were very beat up with scratches, gouges, and very dull "polished" balls. Not to mention all the asymmetrics have the pin over the bridge and the PSA either in the thumbhole or kicked 1/4" right of the thumb.

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Speed: 18 mph (foul line)
Rev Rate: ~350 rpm
Tilt: 10*
Rotation: 55*
PAP: 5 1/8" right, 1/2" up


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 Post subject: Re: Ebonite Bowler ID shocked me
 Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 4:42 am Post Number: #10 Post
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Mo Pinel wrote:

ONE MORE IMPORTANT FACTOR: The Demo ball did NOT have your grip in it. The one you measured DID.

That was exactly the point I was trying to make. Fit is everything in this game

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Right Handed
New stats as of 10/3/16
18 MPH at the line
Rev Rate 500
Axis Rotation 40 - 90
Axis Tilt - 14
PAP - 5" over, 1/2 up


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 Post subject: Re: Ebonite Bowler ID shocked me
 Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 4:53 pm Post Number: #11 Post
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did not measured again, just bowled. Ball (Guru mighty) revs up like crazy. PAP Tape was stable with my old PAP 5 1/8 by 7/8 up. And as we know PAP can move from Ball to ball because its coredesign. Report of Kellytehuna this Forum.
So i (or we) had another importent experiance. Til the time it is not possible to use the Bowler ID with own equipment -> don´t trust it.
Thanks guys!!

Thomas

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 Post subject: Re: Ebonite Bowler ID shocked me
 Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 5:14 pm Post Number: #12 Post
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Nsane wrote:
did not measured again, just bowled. Ball (Guru mighty) revs up like crazy. PAP Tape was stable with my old PAP 5 1/8 by 7/8 up. And as we know PAP can move from Ball to ball because its coredesign. Report of Kellytehuna this Forum.
So i (or we) had another importent experiance. Til the time it is not possible to use the Bowler ID with own equipment -> don´t trust it.
Thanks guys!!

Thomas


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