Board index » General Forums » Layout Advice




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 24 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Guru Master Layouts for Hooking Lanes
 Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 4:07 pm Post Number: #1 Post
Offline
Trusted Source
User avatar

Joined: March 20, 2011
Posts: 144
Location: Raleigh, NC
Reputation: 44
Reputation Power: 1
Here we show how to keep this powerful ball in your hands longer!!
Enjoy!

_________________
Gregg Helms
Striking Results Pro Shops -NC

http://www.strikingresultsproshop.com
USBC Silver Certified Coach
Brunswick Pro Staff
*The opinions expressed are solely those of the writer and not of Brunswick Bowling & Billiards Corporation


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Guru Master Layouts for Hooking Lanes
 Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 8:38 pm Post Number: #2 Post
Offline
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: November 18, 2010
Posts: 1056
Location: Coeur D A'lene, ID
Reputation: 62
Reputation Power: 1
This is a great example of what a person can do layout wise for such a strong ball.

I have been talking to a couple of guys here who bowl locally about taking a strong ball and putting a lower flairing layout on it (I have done this to 3 balls now and I like how hard they role) like in this video but all they have to say is why would you do such a thing like that, taking a strong ball and killing it? I said because the stronger ball has a stronger rolling core, hits harder and the cover will blend the oil and dry better. Been slowly trying to get them to see how layouts really are important and putting the "correct" layouts on balls for your arsenal need to be understood.

Anyway, I really like this video and hope many people have a chance to see this :)

_________________
Stats:
Right handed
Pap is 4 3/4 x 3/8 up currently
Speed around 16.5 off hand
Tilt in the 14-16* range
Rev rate: around 325 - 350 or so
Axis rotation in the 25-70* range
I bowl on Brunswick synthetics. Ths...


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Guru Master Layouts for Hooking Lanes
 Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 12:44 am Post Number: #3 Post
Offline
Mo Pinel
User avatar

Joined: January 26, 2010
Posts: 10054
Reputation: 642
Reputation Power: 7
river800 wrote:
This is a great example of what a person can do layout wise for such a strong ball.

I have been talking to a couple of guys here who bowl locally about taking a strong ball and putting a lower flairing layout on it (I have done this to 3 balls now and I like how hard they role) like in this video but all they have to say is why would you do such a thing like that, taking a strong ball and killing it? I said because the stronger ball has a stronger rolling core, hits harder and the cover will blend the oil and dry better. Been slowly trying to get them to see how layouts really are important and putting the "correct" layouts on balls for your arsenal need to be understood.

Anyway, I really like this video and hope many people have a chance to see this :)


Glad you see the value. The ball does you no good when it's in the bag!


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Guru Master Layouts for Hooking Lanes
 Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 1:38 am Post Number: #4 Post
Offline
Member

Joined: November 21, 2014
Posts: 653
Location: Hong Kong
Reputation: 17
Reputation Power: 1
Wow. The ball is so versatile.

Mo, are those layouts also applicable to Guru and long sport pattern?

Which one, small, medium or most, should I go for with my spec?

_________________
Adrian
Right handed
PAP: 5 1/8 up 3/4
Speed: 15.5 mph (Kegel Specto)
Rev: 350 RPM
Axis tilt: 18-20*
Axis rotation: 60*


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Guru Master Layouts for Hooking Lanes
 Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 8:16 am Post Number: #5 Post
Offline
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: November 18, 2010
Posts: 1056
Location: Coeur D A'lene, ID
Reputation: 62
Reputation Power: 1
Another thing to add to a video like this and what Mo Pinel said, a ball sitting in the bag does no good, that is for sure. But, a wrong ball and wrong layout is even worse even though it is being used. That is why this site has one of the best tools for bowlers around this world something I am glad I found a while ago. The info helps people understand why choosing a proper ball and then putting an arsenal together the right way produces benefits that are worth it.

There are a few other bowlers that I have come across who have posted some videos on youtube that showcase a decently strong ball but with a lower flaring layout. Just another good example of why drilling 3 of the same ball but with different layouts can prove to be beneficial especially if you like the ball a lot!!

Here is an example of a storm sync. Just thought I would throw this out there. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2fHwmyRFWM

_________________
Stats:
Right handed
Pap is 4 3/4 x 3/8 up currently
Speed around 16.5 off hand
Tilt in the 14-16* range
Rev rate: around 325 - 350 or so
Axis rotation in the 25-70* range
I bowl on Brunswick synthetics. Ths...


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Guru Master Layouts for Hooking Lanes
 Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2015 2:39 am Post Number: #6 Post
Offline
Member

Joined: March 20, 2014
Posts: 84
Reputation: 0
Reputation Power: 1
Will a layout like the 110 x 1 1/4 x 60 work for a low tilt bowler.It looks really good.This is on alot of friction houseshot he struggles with his 10* tilt and 40* ar 375 rr 15-16 mph. Weaker balls tend to not carry well.This looks like something for him to try.


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Guru Master Layouts for Hooking Lanes
 Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2015 5:18 am Post Number: #7 Post
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: August 11, 2014
Posts: 572
Reputation: 84
Reputation Power: 1
The bowler in the video looks to me like he has similar stats to what you're describing.

Speed seems to average around 15.5 to 16.3 MPH and similar revs. Speed off the hand would be higher of course.
Reaction and carry don't seem to be an issue with the lower tilt and medium rotation.

I'm contemplating one of these layouts for my 2nd Guru. Haven't decided between the small or medium flare.
My primary ball is 65 x 4 x 40, so fairly close to their 3rd option at 70 x 3.75 x 30.

Steve

_________________
18-19 mph (15.5-16.5 on monitor), 375 rpm, PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8 up, AT: 12*, AR: 45*


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Guru Master Layouts for Hooking Lanes
 Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2015 6:44 am Post Number: #8 Post
Offline
Mo Pinel
User avatar

Joined: January 26, 2010
Posts: 10054
Reputation: 642
Reputation Power: 7
stevespo wrote:
The bowler in the video looks to me like he has similar stats to what you're describing.

Speed seems to average around 15.5 to 16.3 MPH and similar revs. Speed off the hand would be higher of course.
Reaction and carry don't seem to be an issue with the lower tilt and medium rotation.

I'm contemplating one of these layouts for my 2nd Guru. Haven't decided between the small or medium flare.
My primary ball is 65 x 4 x 40, so fairly close to their 3rd option at 70 x 3.75 x 30.

Steve


With your specs, I'd suggest you drill 100 x 2 1/2 x 45. Reduce the surface, if necessary, to separate it from the already drilled ball.


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Guru Master Layouts for Hooking Lanes
 Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2015 1:02 pm Post Number: #9 Post
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: August 11, 2014
Posts: 572
Reputation: 84
Reputation Power: 1
Thanks Mo! That sounds perfect - I'll give it a shot.

Steve

_________________
18-19 mph (15.5-16.5 on monitor), 375 rpm, PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8 up, AT: 12*, AR: 45*


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Guru Master Layouts for Hooking Lanes
 Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2015 1:28 pm Post Number: #10 Post
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: June 21, 2013
Posts: 791
Location: Central Florida
Reputation: 31
Reputation Power: 1
I'm doing double thumb on mine. it's in the box right now. just got it. my pin- >3 1/2"; TW- < 3 oz on it. I think static weight will be bottom weight after drilling am I correct?

should I base the double thumb off my Frenzy which also has bottom weight - 1.5oz, and mb kicked out to the VAL? And reverse the layout from the pin on that ball? or will the double thumb layout with the 30 degree angle to the VAL situate everything based on my pap being 4" from the pin? I guess I can answer that but like some input / confirmation.

I do really well with that ball. the pin to pap is 2 1/2" on the Frenzy, a 2.5" deep, 1/2" weight hole is 2" below right of my pap which is 4 3/8, 3/4 up. mb is 2 3/4 below and 2" right of my thumb on the VAL. sorry to repeat here.

I attached 3 pics of the ball so you could see the mb being below Right of the thumb and on the VAL. I can't show it just by taking a pic from over the grip center.

I have made the mods to my stats.
rr


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

_________________
Tweenr-RH
300-(15) 290-(37) 280-(31)
Ser-1075-4gm, 867-3gm
speed dominant
Tilt: low°, Ax Rot: ~....°, PAP: 3 7/8 over- 1/2 up; Speed: 17.5mph Avg downlane
Several Wins/Top 5 Finishes-scr/hdcp tournaments.


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Guru Master Layouts for Hooking Lanes
 Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2015 11:05 pm Post Number: #11 Post
Offline
Mo Pinel
User avatar

Joined: January 26, 2010
Posts: 10054
Reputation: 642
Reputation Power: 7
rrb6699 wrote:
I'm doing double thumb on mine. it's in the box right now. just got it. my pin- >3 1/2"; TW- < 3 oz on it. I think static weight will be bottom weight after drilling am I correct?

should I base the double thumb off my Frenzy which also has bottom weight - 1.5oz, and mb kicked out to the VAL? And reverse the layout from the pin on that ball? or will the double thumb layout with the 30 degree angle to the VAL situate everything based on my pap being 4" from the pin? I guess I can answer that but like some input / confirmation.

I do really well with that ball. the pin to pap is 2 1/2" on the Frenzy, a 2.5" deep, 1/2" weight hole is 2" below right of my pap which is 4 3/8, 3/4 up. mb is 2 3/4 below and 2" right of my thumb on the VAL. sorry to repeat here.

I attached 3 pics of the ball so you could see the mb being below Right of the thumb and on the VAL. I can't show it just by taking a pic from over the grip center.

I have made the mods to my stats.
rr


1st of all, stop worrying about the bottom weight. Most drilled balls today end up with at least 1/2 oz. of bottom weight.

Because of the difference in the level of the ball technology, drill the new ball with the PSA (mass bias) 1 1/2" further left than the FRENZY and you'll love it.


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Guru Master Layouts for Hooking Lanes
 Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 12:01 am Post Number: #12 Post
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: June 21, 2013
Posts: 791
Location: Central Florida
Reputation: 31
Reputation Power: 1
ok I'll do it. I'm tryin to fill holes at the top of the heavy oil food chain. I am hoping the double thumb on this ball will do it. so I may end up with two guru masters once I try the first one out.

was just noting the bottom weight since the Frenzy ended up with it and only because it feels different (better) to me during my swing. at least I can tell a difference.

I'll give this a shot.

rr

_________________
Tweenr-RH
300-(15) 290-(37) 280-(31)
Ser-1075-4gm, 867-3gm
speed dominant
Tilt: low°, Ax Rot: ~....°, PAP: 3 7/8 over- 1/2 up; Speed: 17.5mph Avg downlane
Several Wins/Top 5 Finishes-scr/hdcp tournaments.


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Guru Master Layouts for Hooking Lanes
 Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 8:02 pm Post Number: #13 Post
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: August 11, 2014
Posts: 572
Reputation: 84
Reputation Power: 1
I laid out my Guru @ 100 x 2.5" x 45 and it puts the PSA/MB just left of my thumb. I track high, so directly in the path of my first 1 or 2 track marks.

I notice on the video that the PSA/MB is going to (generally) be left of the thumb, but I also thought it was a no/no to put the PSA in the track.
Storm says to always keep it 2" from the track, but I can't find any explanation as to why. Will it pull the track flare even closer to the thumb?

So, do I leave it where it is (in the track) or move it over so it falls in (or right of) the thumb? Thanks!

Steve

_________________
18-19 mph (15.5-16.5 on monitor), 375 rpm, PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8 up, AT: 12*, AR: 45*


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Guru Master Layouts for Hooking Lanes
 Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2015 12:34 am Post Number: #14 Post
Offline
Mo Pinel
User avatar

Joined: January 26, 2010
Posts: 10054
Reputation: 642
Reputation Power: 7
stevespo wrote:
I laid out my Guru @ 100 x 2.5" x 45 and it puts the PSA/MB just left of my thumb. I track high, so directly in the path of my first 1 or 2 track marks.

I notice on the video that the PSA/MB is going to (generally) be left of the thumb, but I also thought it was a no/no to put the PSA in the track.
Storm says to always keep it 2" from the track, but I can't find any explanation as to why. Will it pull the track flare even closer to the thumb?

So, do I leave it where it is (in the track) or move it over so it falls in (or right of) the thumb? Thanks!

Steve


Please follow the suggestion! This ball has the rotational inertia to handle that layout. I know the designer. As far as Storm recommends, which they are entitled to, this is NOT a Storm ball.

The pin position, not the PSA, will keep the flares off the thumb.


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Guru Master Layouts for Hooking Lanes
 Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2015 4:33 am Post Number: #15 Post
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: August 11, 2014
Posts: 572
Reputation: 84
Reputation Power: 1
Thanks Mo, just my own confusion! I'll drill and report back. Looking forward to it.

Steve

_________________
18-19 mph (15.5-16.5 on monitor), 375 rpm, PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8 up, AT: 12*, AR: 45*


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Guru Master Layouts for Hooking Lanes
 Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 11:14 am Post Number: #16 Post
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: June 21, 2013
Posts: 791
Location: Central Florida
Reputation: 31
Reputation Power: 1
well mo, I ended up with this ball being 54 x 3 3/4 x 40.

I expected the thing to hook more than my "rack eater" DT Whack, but, I kept coming up light. using oob surface I had trouble with it coming off the point. so, last night after drilling my fingers deeper to take the finger weight down from max (dont like it that close in case some scales vary) I decided to put 2000 Abralon to the surface.

at first it was a bit erratic in the heads just throwing my control of the pocket off. so I put it up for 2 games and used my Frenzy. turned out someone was using powder on the approaches in the senior league earlier that made my leverage at release interesting with H7 and S10s on my shoes.

once I moved off that pair I was on a pair with heavy carrydown. I pulled the GuruM out for the last 2 games, tightened up the shot against my will and throw 22 out of 24 possible strikes 258, 269.

this ball wont be getting any weighthole. it revs up like nothing else, has medium flare but doesnt hook much. it should be a sport shot monster. on the heavy carrydown it was setting up with a ton of revs and just crushing every shot with identical, instant carry.

I want to get another one of these set up to hook. I was hoping for a ball that plays tight like my Frenzy but didnt expect it with this ball. based on my specs, what layout should I put on the next one? ill also add ive marked my pap and it is different than in my specs. I have to measure it today to find out what it is on this ball. all I know is its not as far right by a half inch and just slightly down from my pap listed in my signature.

another thing I noticed is that surface changes cause a tenfold (expression) change in ball reaction. the 2000 I hand sanded last night was like sanding another ball to 500. it takes a game or so to settle the cover down after sanding.

when suggesting a layout, let me know what top wt and pin I should order on the new ball.

tia,

RR

_________________
Tweenr-RH
300-(15) 290-(37) 280-(31)
Ser-1075-4gm, 867-3gm
speed dominant
Tilt: low°, Ax Rot: ~....°, PAP: 3 7/8 over- 1/2 up; Speed: 17.5mph Avg downlane
Several Wins/Top 5 Finishes-scr/hdcp tournaments.


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Guru Master Layouts for Hooking Lanes
 Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 12:34 pm Post Number: #17 Post
Offline
Mo Pinel
User avatar

Joined: January 26, 2010
Posts: 10054
Reputation: 642
Reputation Power: 7
ads wrote:
Wow. The ball is so versatile.

Mo, are those layouts also applicable to Guru and long sport pattern?

Which one, small, medium or most, should I go for with my spec?


Go with the most continuous layout first with your specs.


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Guru Master Layouts for Hooking Lanes
 Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 12:37 pm Post Number: #18 Post
Offline
Mo Pinel
User avatar

Joined: January 26, 2010
Posts: 10054
Reputation: 642
Reputation Power: 7
rrb6699 wrote:
well mo, I ended up with this ball being 54 x 3 3/4 x 40.

I expected the thing to hook more than my "rack eater" DT Whack, but, I kept coming up light. using oob surface I had trouble with it coming off the point. so, last night after drilling my fingers deeper to take the finger weight down from max (dont like it that close in case some scales vary) I decided to put 2000 Abralon to the surface.

at first it was a bit erratic in the heads just throwing my control of the pocket off. so I put it up for 2 games and used my Frenzy. turned out someone was using powder on the approaches in the senior league earlier that made my leverage at release interesting with H7 and S10s on my shoes.

once I moved off that pair I was on a pair with heavy carrydown. I pulled the GuruM out for the last 2 games, tightened up the shot against my will and throw 22 out of 24 possible strikes 258, 269.

this ball wont be getting any weighthole. it revs up like nothing else, has medium flare but doesnt hook much. it should be a sport shot monster. on the heavy carrydown it was setting up with a ton of revs and just crushing every shot with identical, instant carry.

I want to get another one of these set up to hook. I was hoping for a ball that plays tight like my Frenzy but didnt expect it with this ball. based on my specs, what layout should I put on the next one? ill also add ive marked my pap and it is different than in my specs. I have to measure it today to find out what it is on this ball. all I know is its not as far right by a half inch and just slightly down from my pap listed in my signature.

another thing I noticed is that surface changes cause a tenfold (expression) change in ball reaction. the 2000 I hand sanded last night was like sanding another ball to 500. it takes a game or so to settle the cover down after sanding.

when suggesting a layout, let me know what top wt and pin I should order on the new ball.

tia,

RR


Exactly what ball are we discussing in your post?


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Guru Master Layouts for Hooking Lanes
 Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 6:53 pm Post Number: #19 Post
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: June 21, 2013
Posts: 791
Location: Central Florida
Reputation: 31
Reputation Power: 1
sorry,
I was trying to stay on subject with the GuruMaster. update the pap on my guru master is now 4 1/8 over and 1 1/4 up. the pin to pap distance is 3 1/2.

mb is just slightly right of even with bottom of the thumbhole. cg is 1" below finger bridge.

the ball box stated a 3.9oz top wt with a pin of 3-4".

ball wt 15 3oz before drilling.

rr

_________________
Tweenr-RH
300-(15) 290-(37) 280-(31)
Ser-1075-4gm, 867-3gm
speed dominant
Tilt: low°, Ax Rot: ~....°, PAP: 3 7/8 over- 1/2 up; Speed: 17.5mph Avg downlane
Several Wins/Top 5 Finishes-scr/hdcp tournaments.


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Guru Master Layouts for Hooking Lanes
 Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 7:34 pm Post Number: #20 Post
Offline
Mo Pinel
User avatar

Joined: January 26, 2010
Posts: 10054
Reputation: 642
Reputation Power: 7
rrb6699 wrote:
sorry,
I was trying to stay on subject with the GuruMaster. update the pap on my guru master is now 4 1/8 over and 1 1/4 up. the pin to pap distance is 3 1/2.

mb is just slightly right of even with bottom of the thumbhole. cg is 1" below finger bridge.

the ball box stated a 3.9oz top wt with a pin of 3-4".

ball wt 15 3oz before drilling.

rr


You said you want to set up one of these to hook. It will, I promise you. Drill it 45 x 4 x 35 with a P3 hole. Hang on!


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
 
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 24 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

Board index » General Forums » Layout Advice


 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: