Mo, I've got a Gradient Line question.....

Which layout is right for me?

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Wuzlow
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Mo, I've got a Gradient Line question.....

Post by Wuzlow » January 29th, 2010, 6:27 am

Mo, in the seminar you had in Lansing @ Royal Scott Lanes, you mentioned something about the PSA being below your thumb hole to draw the gradient line to a different spot from your PAP. I can't say that I remember completely, so I'd like to pick your brain a sec.

I just recently purchased the Evil Siege. I have the original and basically drilled the Evil the same, except with a smaller angle to the VAL for a quicker response off the dry. I placed a balance hole in the P3 position after throwing the ball to see what I can benefit from it. Needless to say, the reaction I achieved was exactly what I was looking for! Unfortunately, I flair just over my P3. Can I move the hole to keep the reaction?

Was there a way to draw the line to a different spot than the PSA? I thought you said there was a way. Sorry for the book, but the seminar was so informative that I'm trying to learn all of it to better understand it, and use it. Thanks for your time!

Tom

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Re: Mo, I've got a Gradient Line question.....

Post by Mo Pinel » January 29th, 2010, 6:36 am

Wuzlow wrote:Mo, in the seminar you had in Lansing @ Royal Scott Lanes, you mentioned something about the PSA being below your thumb hole to draw the gradient line to a different spot from your PAP. I can't say that I remember completely, so I'd like to pick your brain a sec.

I just recently purchased the Evil Siege. I have the original and basically drilled the Evil the same, except with a smaller angle to the VAL for a quicker response off the dry. I placed a balance hole in the P3 position after throwing the ball to see what I can benefit from it. Needless to say, the reaction I achieved was exactly what I was looking for! Unfortunately, I flair just over my P3. Can I move the hole to keep the reaction?

Was there a way to draw the line to a different spot than the PSA? I thought you said there was a way. Sorry for the book, but the seminar was so informative that I'm trying to learn all of it to better understand it, and use it. Thanks for your time!

Tom
The gradient line ALWAYS goes from the PAP to the PSA. The only comment I made about anything like that was about where the PSA of a symmetrical ball is after drilling and before the balance hole. In the case of the Evil Siege, draw a line from P3 to the center of the grip and move the hole towards the center of the grip just enough to not flare over it. This is a small compromise for bowler's who flare the hell out of the ball.

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Re: Mo, I've got a Gradient Line question.....

Post by TMack » January 29th, 2010, 12:49 pm

Just to make sure we all understand the gragient line. The line on a symmetrical ball is from the PAP to the ASSUMED PSA. Correct? 6 3/4" on a line from PIN thru CG.

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Re: Mo, I've got a Gradient Line question.....

Post by Mo Pinel » January 29th, 2010, 1:15 pm

TMack wrote:Just to make sure we all understand the gragient line. The line on a symmetrical ball is from the PAP to the ASSUMED PSA. Correct? 6 3/4" on a line from PIN thru CG.
When laying out the ball, YES! Smaller drilling angles will require bigger balance holes, which will move the real PSA of the drilled ball as close as possible to the assumed PSA used in the layout. Got it?

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Re: Mo, I've got a Gradient Line question.....

Post by TMack » January 29th, 2010, 1:25 pm

Mo Pinel wrote: When laying out the ball, YES! Smaller drilling angles will require bigger balance holes, which will move the real PSA of the drilled ball as close as possible to the assumed PSA used in the layout. Got it?
Got it !
I asked the same question on the OTHER forum and that is when MrBuzzsaw (with holding name...lol) got involved and started talking about moving the PSA all over the ball. I understood what he was saying, but it made no since on what i was asking. This is why when drilling a symmetrical ball it is best to use long pin's so you can drill bigger weight holes to really move the PSA closer to the desired location.

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Re: Mo, I've got a Gradient Line question.....

Post by MathIsTruth » January 29th, 2010, 1:56 pm

TMack wrote: ........started talking about moving the PSA all over the ball. I understood what he was saying, but it made no since on what i was asking. This is why when drilling a symmetrical ball it is best to use long pin's so you can drill bigger weight holes to really move the PSA closer to the desired location.
Just to clarify, the PSA will not "move all around the ball". The PSA will shift towards the balance hole location. The RG value of the balance hole axis will increase. This will correspond to a shift in the "ridge" of the RG contours, the Pin to Spin Line. The proximity of the adjusted PAP to the Pin to Spin line is rather important, for every type of ball!!

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Re: Mo, I've got a Gradient Line question.....

Post by TMack » January 29th, 2010, 1:59 pm

MathIsTruth wrote:Just to clarify, the PSA will not "move all around the ball". The PSA will shift towards the balance hole location. [/color]
Sorry, thats what i meant. Thanks !

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Re: Mo, I've got a Gradient Line question.....

Post by Mo Pinel » January 29th, 2010, 2:00 pm

TMack wrote: Got it !
I asked the same question on the OTHER forum and that is when MrBuzzsaw (with holding name...lol) got involved and started talking about moving the PSA all over the ball. I understood what he was saying, but it made no since on what i was asking. This is why when drilling a symmetrical ball it is best to use long pin's so you can drill bigger weight holes to really move the PSA closer to the desired location.
Bigger pin balls and somewhat smaller drilling angles so you will need a bigger balance hole to get the real PSA closer to the intended PSA.

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Re: Mo, I've got a Gradient Line question.....

Post by Wuzlow » January 29th, 2010, 2:05 pm

Thanks Mo! I thought that's was what you had said, but I just wanted to make sure. With that I appreciate the advice, and I will do so since I plugged the hole last night to put it else where. Thanks again!

Tom

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Re: Mo, I've got a Gradient Line question.....

Post by JohnP » January 31st, 2010, 1:23 am

If I have any doubt about whether the track will flare over a balance hole I mark the proposed location with a stack of three pieces of tape and have the customer throw it. You'll hear the "thump" if the track hits the tape, but also check the location of the closest flare ring. If it's within an inch or so, consider moving the location a little since the balance hole may increase the flare. -- JohnP

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Re: Mo, I've got a Gradient Line question.....

Post by Mo Pinel » January 31st, 2010, 1:54 am

JohnP wrote:If I have any doubt about whether the track will flare over a balance hole I mark the proposed location with a stack of three pieces of tape and have the customer throw it. You'll hear the "thump" if the track hits the tape, but also check the location of the closest flare ring. If it's within an inch or so, consider moving the location a little since the balance hole may increase the flare. -- JohnP
Sounds good!

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