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 Post subject: Re: Layout Question
 Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 8:13 pm Post Number: #161 Post
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Eric et al,

Can I add a motion hole to the IQ 30 drilled at 65x5x35 pin slightly above fingers and cg kicked out slightly.

If not, other than surface any other BH I could use to create backend angle?

Thanks

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 Post subject: Re: Layout Question
 Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:40 pm Post Number: #162 Post
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I just MoHoled a (drill angle to Cg) 55-5-40 pin above the bridge Hammer Nail. I was able to pitch the MoHole towards the heavy quadrant and was able to keep statically legal. I also pushed the hole to the right and closer to my track to help accommodate it as well. I did not need to drill the fingers any deeper to keep legal. Started with 7/8"x4" hole and got minimal change in flare separation and reaction. It did become more angular. Went back and opened up the hole to 1" and saw a significant change in flare and reaction. Still no need to take the 4000 grit shine off the ball. I am thinking another 1/8" and I will need some surface. I still need some more time on the lanes with it before I decide if I want to make it larger.

I had specifically asked Mo about my Nail and he said go for it.
When I listed the layout there I used the center of the thumb for the drill angle
From the MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration thread
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=7374&hilit=motion+hole&start=480
post 393,394 page 25
EricHartwell wrote:
I have a Hammer Nail #13 RG (2.53) Diff (.055)
Drilled 70-5-40
Pin is directly above the bridge cg is just below the ring finger Pin is 3-5/8" from grip center
Post drilled 1/4oz top 3/4oz side 1/2oz Finger
Factory finish 800 Abranet®, 1000, 2000, 4000 Abralon­®, Powerhouse™ Factory Finish Polish
This ball is great on a broken down house shot Until Ive moved in to 4th arrow trying to get it out to the breakpoint outside the 10 board It just seems to run out of carry. Also it is way to jumpy on the fresh lanes, Would love to put some surface on it and be able to use it for all 3 games.

Currently it has 3" of flare.

Idea: Drill the ring finger deeper resurface to 2000 add a MOhole

Would this be a good canditate for a MOtion hole?

Mo Pinel wrote:
Your plan seems accurate. Go for it. Let me know what happens?


Thanks, your post reminded me to update my post in the Motion Hole experiments thread
I suggest you post your Motion hole experience there as well.

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=12530&p=98073#p98073

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 Post subject: Re: Layout Question
 Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 9:03 pm Post Number: #163 Post
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Eric this is my new rebuilt 14# arsenal...comments?

Storm Crux Pearl 75x3x35
Storm Tropical Breeze Chrome 60x4x30 Double Thumb
Brunswick Nirvana 65x4x40
Storm IQ 30 Motion hole 65x5x35
Storm Hyroad Pearl Motion hole 85x4.25x50 Pin in ring finger
Radical Guru Master 55x3.5x35

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 Post subject: Re: Layout Question
 Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 2:43 am Post Number: #164 Post
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rf67pccb wrote:
Eric this is my new rebuilt 14# arsenal...comments?

Storm Crux Pearl 75x3x35
Storm Tropical Breeze Chrome 60x4x30 Double Thumb
Brunswick Nirvana 65x4x40
Storm IQ 30 Motion hole 65x5x35
Storm Hyroad Pearl Motion hole 85x4.25x50 Pin in ring finger
Radical Guru Master 55x3.5x35

Benchmark 55-4-35 1.5:1 Ratio, 90* total

You lack equipment on the stronger side of Benchmark. Not a big deal if you do not bowl on longer patterns or tournament shots.

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 Post subject: Re: Layout Question
 Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 7:31 pm Post Number: #165 Post
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My Guru Master now has around 30 games on it. I do not have pads but could I use 500 and 1500 wet/dry sandpaper and get close to OOB new?

I really like this piece of equipment the continuation is super!!!!! But the reaction has changed slightly.

Thanks

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 Post subject: Re: Layout Question
 Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 8:03 pm Post Number: #166 Post
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You can but make sure the grit is equivalent as Siaair pads use a different grit numbering than regular sand paper, there is an equivalence chart here in the wiki... or just order some pads...

Also, have you been wiping it with a towel after every shot and cleaning with ball cleaner before putting it in your bag? If not maybe it's time for some oil extraction...

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 Post subject: Re: Layout Question
 Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:33 am Post Number: #167 Post
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I wipe with micro fiber towel every shot and clean when set is over. However, I believe lane shine occurs within 25 games or so with most balls ending up around 4000.

I will experiment and ultimately get some Siaair pads.

In addition Eric et al:

The Guru at 55x3.5x35 has the best ball motion I have ever had in my 62 years of bowling. Possibly it is a combination of layout and ball (first Radical for me). If I wanted same motion/continuation but something I could go to in third game of league what should I do? Same ball with modified layout or different ball with same layout?

Thanks

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 Post subject: Re: Layout Question
 Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 3:01 am Post Number: #168 Post
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rf67pccb wrote:
The Guru at 55x3.5x35 has the best ball motion I have ever had in my 62 years of bowling. Possibly it is a combination of layout and ball (first Radical for me). If I wanted same motion/continuation but something I could go to in third game of league what should I do? Same ball with modified layout or different ball with same layout?

I would suggest a ball with a weaker coverstock with a similar layout/ratio to be determined when you decide on the ball. I would definitely want to take the ball into consideration before deciding on the layout.

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 Post subject: Re: Layout Question
 Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 1:40 am Post Number: #169 Post
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Eric et al,

I purchased another Guru Master and want to ball down for third game in league. I love the motion of my 55x3.5x35. Could I go 60x3.5x40 with the second ball?

Actually I am deeper to begin but the motion and continuation is so great and needed at this particular house with not very aggressive back ends generally.

Or could I drill the same and adjust surface higher than the 500/1500 Siiair?

Other balls in my current arsenal just do not have the hit needed in this center.

Just wondering the best way to go.....

Thanks....

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 Post subject: Re: Layout Question
 Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 1:05 pm Post Number: #170 Post
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rf67pccb wrote:
I purchased another Guru Master and want to ball down for third game in league. I love the motion of my 55x3.5x35. Could I go 60x3.5x40 with the second ball?


In my opinion, no. That's a really subtle layout change, that you could likely accomplish with a slight tweak to hand position (cock/tilt) and save carrying another ball.

I have every Guru, including multiples of the original and Master. The Master is my go-to ball for long/short sport and I use it a lot on THS as well, especially in the lower friction houses.

They need oil in the heads. If I can start left of everyone else, and stay left, then there are times when I can use it the entire block. If I get sandwiched, then it loses too much energy once I move into someone else's track. At that point, it's a big zone jump or just ball down and stay put (or move right) with something like a Primo (pearl), Jackpot (pearl), Mighty (4000/polished), etc.

You could try a low flaring layout (like 100-2.5-45, etc) on the Master, and a lot less surface (2000/4000, even polish) but my experiments with that and the Guru have not been successful. This works really well for some people, but it doesn't work for me with my ball speed and release characteristics. I haven't found a condition that I like it on (yet).

I am much better off with a Primo, Jackpot, etc with a control layout, not trying to play left of 4th arrow with the strong ball. That's just me.

If you're not getting too deep, and the heads are not too beaten up, then yes - you might be able to use the Master effectively with a weaker drilling and less surface. Your high axis rotation is something that I can't duplicate, and it might be the key.

Steve

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 Post subject: Re: Layout Question
 Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 4:52 pm Post Number: #171 Post
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rf67pccb wrote:
Eric et al,

I purchased another Guru Master and want to ball down for third game in league. I love the motion of my 55x3.5x35. Could I go 60x3.5x40 with the second ball?

Actually I am deeper to begin but the motion and continuation is so great and needed at this particular house with not very aggressive back ends generally.

Or could I drill the same and adjust surface higher than the 500/1500 Siiair?

Other balls in my current arsenal just do not have the hit needed in this center.

Just wondering the best way to go.....

Thanks....


A minor layout change like you propose is not enough of a change like Steve mentioned. But if you were to tweek the layout AND take the surface to 2000/4000 you would have something different enough. Maintaining the dull surface on your first Supreme will be the key to keeping those balls with different reactions. Let it get lane shined and you will basically have 2 of the same after a while.

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 Post subject: Re: Layout Question
 Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:51 pm Post Number: #172 Post
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Thanks Eric and Steve

That is exactly what I was thinking. Slightly weaker layout and experiment with surface on Guru Master #2 if needed and maintain the 500/1500 on Guru Master #1

At this point I am biting the bullet and going for it....

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 Post subject: Re: Layout Question
 Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 8:57 pm Post Number: #173 Post
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rf67pccb wrote:
At this point I am biting the bullet and going for it....


Sounds great!

There is so much room for experimentation when it comes to surface, that I think you can dial it in over time. For those "game 3" transition type balls, I am having success with things like 500 + compound, or 500/1000 + polish.

The rougher "under" surface seems to provide some control and help with over/under, but the polish helps get it through the front more cleanly. A true 500/2000/4000 + polish can be pretty jumpy for me during transition.

Ideally, "lane shine" will do what you want without a lot of ongoing maintenance...

Steve

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 Post subject: Re: Layout Question
 Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 9:08 pm Post Number: #174 Post
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stevespo wrote:
You could try a low flaring layout (like 100-2.5-45, etc) on the Master, and a lot less surface (2000/4000, even polish) but my experiments with that and the Guru have not been successful. This works really well for some people, but it doesn't work for me with my ball speed and release characteristics. I haven't found a condition that I like it on (yet).


Ok, so now I've found a condition for it. Bowling on Turnpike today and found that I could use the control/polished Guru and stay around the track area once things had gotten beaten up. Had some nice scores, and was able to control the pocket and carry.

Alternately, I could jump left and try and open things up with Paradox Trilogy, then play a sport drilled Guru Master as things flattened out again. The 100-2.5-45 Guru seemed to be the best overall look, paralleling left when it started to read early.

Only issue is that I'm flaring over the middle finger. That pin position isn't good for my high track.

Steve

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 Post subject: Re: Layout Question
 Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 11:31 pm Post Number: #175 Post
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Eric et al

On the Radical less hook/big hit asymm 90x2.25x50 w/p1 what is the p1 for? What size and how deep if used.

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 Post subject: Re: Layout Question
 Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 11:58 pm Post Number: #176 Post
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rf67pccb wrote:
Eric et al

On the Radical less hook/big hit asymm 90x2.25x50 w/p1 what is the p1 for? What size and how deep if used.

The layout will more than likely require a balance hole. A Balance hole other than P1 is going to raise the flare and give more hook.
You could go with a P1.5 if there is too much thumb weight. It will be located below the grip midline and will only raise the differential minimally keeping the low flare reaction intact.

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 Post subject: Re: Layout Question
 Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 12:32 am Post Number: #177 Post
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Thanks Eric I will let you know what I come up with

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