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 Post subject: Re: Layout Question
 Posted: Tue May 19, 2015 12:46 pm Post Number: #121 Post
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OK I broke down and purchased a Crux Pearl (I could not help myself) I drilled it at the recommended 75x3x35 and threw a few games after practicing several games with other equipment.

I do not have the thumbhole exactly where I want it but the ball allows me to open the lane up just as I suspected.

It fits at the top of my arsenal and as time goes on I will report back.

Thanks for all of the input! Current Arsenal:

Strike King 80x4.25x55
Punch Out 80x4.25x55 P3
Reax V2 75x2.25x50
Wicked Siege 55x3.50x35
Rocket 70x4x40
Crux Pearl 75x3x35

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AR 80
RR 300
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 Post subject: Re: Layout Question
 Posted: Sat May 23, 2015 4:42 pm Post Number: #122 Post
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Although I have used the Crux Pearl (75x3x35) in only one center THS I am amazed at how clean it is through the heads. It is slightly below my Rocket (70x4x40) but reads the midlane better and enters the roll phase nicely.

I am taking it with the Strike King (80x4.25x55) to the Nationals this week. Only these two balls due to luggage restrictions. I have practiced on the condition and have watched some streaming and I believe I can go straight with one ball and open the lane up with the other.

The shot is tough and spare shooting is at a premium. My expectations are not real high but time will tell. Thanks Eric for all of your layout recommendations.

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 Post subject: Re: Layout Question
 Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2015 7:16 pm Post Number: #123 Post
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ok time has passed since the Nationals. I had practiced prior to El Paso and what I encountered there was not even close.

Much hook inside and zero hook outside like a reverse block. I bowled terrible but cashed in team and doubles. Practicing at home makes no sense at all and possibly practicing on site makes some sense. Older bowlers with not much speed have little chance and they make up the majority of bowlers.

I will be at Reno next year with plans to bowl my 9 games and spend most of my time playing golf!

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AR 80
RR 300
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 Post subject: Re: Layout Question
 Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2015 12:51 am Post Number: #124 Post
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I watched vids a lot of the event. nobody could keep it off the headpin. left side looked slightly better. I would have moved parallel out until I found hold. then keep making small parallel moves out with the oil. maybe with 50 x 3 or less x 40 on somethibg with a large core and the mb kicked out (for me).

if that shot proved tricky, I may have still opted for somewhere around 25-35 at the arrows abd head out that way to search for a cushion. approaches permitting.

how were the approaches? sticky? slick?

I really wished I coulda made this one.

RR

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 Post subject: Re: Layout Question
 Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2015 6:12 pm Post Number: #125 Post
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The approaches were fine. I believe that the new higher viscosity conditioners (fire/ice) may have limited use as far as not breaking down as quickly, however, it provides much more hook than ever. With the new reactive equipment this is not needed.

The "hooking" conditioners hurt the tweener players that make up the majority of bowlers. High speed and low rev players could play on the older lower viscosity stuff and so could the other 50%. The new conditioners make it very difficult for the in between guys.

I say get rid of the new conditioners and bring back the old and give all bowlers an even chance. The equipment today has unlimited hook capabilities we do not need the added hook from higher viscosity conditioners.

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 Post subject: Re: Layout Question
 Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 10:20 pm Post Number: #126 Post
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Three of the centers here all condition the same now. Say 38 feet 7-7 with fire oil. Have had zero success with any equipment. Brought my Reax V2 from the garage 75x2.25x50 and had a real good reaction. It did not check up violently outside like all of my other equipment. Will try it in my one league on Wednesday and practice on Friday and report back.

So far the local houses have (it seems) been cutting back to assist some bowlers. The condition has changed completely from summer league. We will see!

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 Post subject: Re: Layout Question
 Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 5:33 pm Post Number: #127 Post
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THS low flare layout, Why was it left in the garage?
That ball should be a house shot killer.

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PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
65* rotation
12* tilt
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 Post subject: Re: Layout Question
 Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 9:06 pm Post Number: #128 Post
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Apparently I like to struggle for no reason. I think back when, I tried it once a did nit like the look I had.

This last practice session I had room in and out!!! I am an idiot...I have struggled mightily in league when the pattern changed but in practice Sunday I averaged 235 for 5 games, not earth shattering but a good start.

Tomorrow league and I will report what happens.....

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RR 300
PAP 4 7/8 Over 7/8 Up


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 Post subject: Re: Layout Question
 Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 2:35 pm Post Number: #129 Post
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I checked my REAX 75x2.25x50 and the side weight is 1 3/4 ounces. I like the reaction but would be open to reducing it slightly for THS. Also I believe there is 1/2 ounce of thumb weight.

Need suggestions for both p1 and p2 depth and size so I can decide what to do.

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 Post subject: Re: Layout Question
 Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 10:48 pm Post Number: #130 Post
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You can use the chart from the link below to estimate total weight removed from the bit size and hole depth. The weight removed will be split between finger/thumb, positive/negative side, and top/bottom depending on the location of the hole. -- JohnP

http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index. ... emoval.pdf


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 Post subject: Re: Layout Question
 Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2015 1:38 am Post Number: #131 Post
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I think I understand the chart to some degree, however doesn't needing to remove side and not increase thumb add a degree of difficulty.

Would a gradient p2 hole remove side weight but also likely remove some thumb weight?

Since static weights are not relevant would a good sized p2 hole keep the reaction the same?

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Speed 16.6 Off Hand
AT 12
AR 80
RR 300
PAP 4 7/8 Over 7/8 Up


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 Post subject: Re: Layout Question
 Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2015 10:23 pm Post Number: #132 Post
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rf67pccb wrote:
I think I understand the chart to some degree, however doesn't needing to remove side and not increase thumb add a degree of difficulty.

Would a gradient p2 hole remove side weight but also likely remove some thumb weight?

Since static weights are not relevant would a good sized p2 hole keep the reaction the same?


P2 is about 3/4" below midline. It will reduce the thumb weight a little. Not enough to worry about.
A larger shallower hole, try to Drill only deep enough and not hit the core. P2 1-1/8" x 1.25" deep. Something like this will affect the reaction the least.
Once you hit the core you can be sure that you will now start changing the reaction.

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PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
65* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16mph off hand


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 Post subject: Re: Layout Question
 Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2015 1:59 am Post Number: #133 Post
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If you don't want to increase the thumb weight you have to drill the hole centered on or below the grip midline. If the hole is centered above the midline it will increase thumb weight. If it's centered below the midline it will decrease thumb weight. The further above/below the midline the more the change in thumb/finger weight (for the same hole size and depth). The same is true for changes in positive/negative side weight, with the grip centerline substituted for the midline. Top/bottom weight is the same, using the line that defines the top and bottom of the ball. -- JohnP


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 Post subject: Re: Layout Question
 Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 1:05 am Post Number: #134 Post
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The lane condition saga continues. Now the length seems shorter maybe 38 feet somewhere around 7-7. I have no piece of equipment that works at all.

So I drilled a new Carbon Chrome Tropical Breeze (14#) for a double thumb 60x4x30 for me. I wanted the weak ball to have some pop. I practiced with it yesterday on a fresh THS and it seemed to have a good reaction playing around 10 at the arrows with a slight swing.

At this point I do not see any reason to add the DT hole but I bowl league Wednesday and we will see.

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RR 300
PAP 4 7/8 Over 7/8 Up


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 Post subject: Re: Layout Question
 Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2016 2:48 pm Post Number: #135 Post
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I have ordered a new Mastermind I would like to drill: I changed thumb pitch and would like to add to my arsenal. Suggestions for above, below or in between would be greatly appreciated.

Current arsenal:

Crux 75x3x35
Rocket 70x4x40
Breeze Double thumb 60x4x30

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PAP 4 7/8 Over 7/8 Up


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 Post subject: Re: Layout Question
 Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2016 7:19 pm Post Number: #136 Post
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I think a Control layout will complement your long and strong collection well. 55-3.5-55

1:1 ratios lend themselves well to balance hole use for tuning the reaction.

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PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
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 Post subject: Re: Layout Question
 Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2016 8:55 pm Post Number: #137 Post
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Thanks Eric.....My initial thought was 75x4x35...how do you think that might fit within my current arsenal? Where would that layout on the Mastermind coverstock/core place it? Would it go slightly above the Crux? Or are you thinking the layout you mentioned be more benchmark for me?

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RR 300
PAP 4 7/8 Over 7/8 Up


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 Post subject: Re: Layout Question
 Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2016 9:30 pm Post Number: #138 Post
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Benchmark for you is 55-4-35 1.5:1 Ratio, 90* total
I was thinking Control 1:1 Ratio 110* total
If you were to go 75-4-35 you are looking at a ball that will roll a sooner and be more angular than the Crux.
This would be assuming similar coverstock prep.

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PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
65* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
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 Post subject: Re: Layout Question
 Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2016 9:46 pm Post Number: #139 Post
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Thanks Eric...just the info that I needed

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AT 12
AR 80
RR 300
PAP 4 7/8 Over 7/8 Up


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 Post subject: Re: Layout Question
 Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2016 3:32 pm Post Number: #140 Post
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Eric et al:

I have a left handed friend with the following camera/computer generated specs...

AR 85
AT 21.67
PAP 4 3/16 5/8 up
SP 15.043 off hand
RPM 319

He needs suggestions for THS 39 feet 7-7 medium oil at best (21 ml) 20 year old synthetics

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RR 300
PAP 4 7/8 Over 7/8 Up


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