Layout Question

Which layout is right for me?

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rf67pccb
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Re: Layout Question

Post by rf67pccb »

He only bowls on house shots. 2 leagues on synthetics and 1 on old wood. All THS around here are top hat 18 ml around 10-10. Extreme wet/dry. Both houses are 39-40 feet.
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rf67pccb
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Re: Layout Question

Post by rf67pccb »

Eric,

Earlier you had mentioned a 75x2.25x50 for a stronger asymmetrical ball. I was looking at the 900 Global Breakdown. The differential is an amazing .30 very low end. Would that layout work for what you were thinking for me? There are still times when the Strike King has too little pop but I really like it and I am inclined to wait for the shot to come to me. Not always a good strategy as I sometimes waste a game in league.

The Wicked Siege at 55x3.50x35 is still to strong and I have not been able to dial the Punch Out in with proper surface yet plus I do not seem to be able to get the right feel in the thumb yet. I am going to practice tomorrow and work out the thumb/release problem I hope.

For our 39-40 foot and low volume THS I find the most success with low differential equipment so far. Where would the Breakdown fit in my current arsenal? Or should I pursue something else?

Thanks.......
Rorey Faiola
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Re: Layout Question

Post by rf67pccb »

Ok I worked out the thumb/release problem with the Punch Out and the results were great. Clustered 5 games between 235 and 245. Not a real good center for overall carry. I am very pleased with the step up from the Strike King.

I think my arsenal is in pretty good shape. I still have not drilled anything up with the 75x2.5x50. Still wondering do I need it and is the Break Down even a wise choice as Eric had designed that layout for a "stronger" asymmetrical.

In the bag now:

Wicked Siege 55x3.5x35
Punch Out 80x4.25x50 small 3/4" axis hole
Strike King 80x4.25x50
Reax V2 75x2.25x50
Vibe motion Hole
T-Zone
Last edited by rf67pccb on February 19th, 2015, 10:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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EricHartwell
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Re: Layout Question

Post by EricHartwell »

rf67pccb wrote:Eric,

Earlier you had mentioned a 75x2.25x50 for a stronger asymmetrical ball. I was looking at the 900 Global Breakdown. The differential is an amazing .30 very low end. Would that layout work for what you were thinking for me? There are still times when the Strike King has too little pop but I really like it and I am inclined to wait for the shot to come to me. Not always a good strategy as I sometimes waste a game in league.

The Wicked Siege at 55x3.50x35 is still to strong and I have not been able to dial the Punch Out in with proper surface yet plus I do not seem to be able to get the right feel in the thumb yet. I am going to practice tomorrow and work out the thumb/release problem I hope.

For our 39-40 foot and low volume THS I find the most success with low differential equipment so far. Where would the Breakdown fit in my current arsenal? Or should I pursue something else?

Thanks.......
The weaker Asym will probably need a P3/P4 balance hole to wake it up. .011 is not a Strong Mass Bias to start with, barely Asym.

I would plan a layout that would require a strong balance hole. The double thumb layout would be interesting on the weaker 900 Global Breakdown.
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Re: Layout Question

Post by river800 »

EricHartwell wrote:
The weaker Asym will probably need a P3/P4 balance hole to wake it up. .011 is not a Strong Mass Bias to start with, barely Asym.

I would plan a layout that would require a strong balance hole. The double thumb layout would be interesting on the weaker 900 Global Breakdown.
This does bring up an interesting thing about the 900 global break down. It is like what the morich Mojave was, just a solid cover compared to the mojave. But it does have a decent cover as the s70 cover isn't weak though. The original black break from 900 global was a pretty nice ball that had the same cover just a stronger version of this core found in the break down.

I am actually thinking of picking up one of these break downs and putting a control drill on it but doing a bit longer pin to pap to help it pick up enough. But, as Eric said adding at least a P3 hole will definitely have to be considered though. Would be stronger than the Strike king that is for sure.

I am thinking that a benchmark on the break down would fit between the strike king and wicked siege with maybe a small P3?

Eric, what do you think?
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Re: Layout Question

Post by EricHartwell »

I think .020 diff and .011 int diff is a weak core and it will need more than just a benchmark drilling to put it in the company of the other 2 balls mentioned. Thus my dbl thumb suggestion.
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Re: Layout Question

Post by MegaMav »

EricHartwell wrote:I think .020 diff and .011 int diff is a weak core and it will need more than just a benchmark drilling to put it in the company of the other 2 balls mentioned. Thus my dbl thumb suggestion.

Think diff ratio.
Plenty of asymmetry there.
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EricHartwell
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Re: Layout Question

Post by EricHartwell »

I totally over looked that.
That is a differential ratio of .55 as compared to the wicked siege .36 diff ratio

So, would the double thumb layout be a monster skid/snap reaction on a ball like the Breakdown?
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Re: Layout Question

Post by river800 »

EricHartwell wrote:I think .020 diff and .011 int diff is a weak core and it will need more than just a benchmark drilling to put it in the company of the other 2 balls mentioned. Thus my dbl thumb suggestion.
The diff is 0.030 as stated for a 15 lb ball on global's website. The ball has more flare and has a mas bias compared to the strike king. The cover on the break down is stronger than what is on the punch out.

Your question about the double thumb causing more of a skid/snap reaction for the break down is a good question. This ball wants to get down the lane but the cover is going to provide some decent traction. Due to the overall nature of this ball, I am going to say no about it being a skid/snap reaction. The ball could react similar to a storm wipe out but role a bit stronger on the backend. It has a diff ratio of 0.36 like the wicked siege.

This was taken from post # 9 from Eric's benchmark recommendation for an asymm ball.

Your benchmark ratio would be 1.5:1 for Asymmetrical balls. 55-3.5-35

There's only one way to find out... lol I think a benchmark layout with a 4" pin to pap with a small P3 hole to start and adjust surface from there.
Stats:
Right handed
Pap is 4 3/4 x 3/8 up currently
Speed around 16.5 off hand
Tilt in the 14-16* range
Rev rate: around 325 - 350 or so
Axis rotation in the 25-70* range
I bowl on Brunswick synthetics. Ths...
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Re: Layout Question

Post by EricHartwell »

My bad on the .020 diff, that is the diff of the arson low flare, I got the 2 posts confused.

.011/.030=.367 Differential Ratio of the breakdown
.020/.055=.364 Differential Ratio of the wicked siege

Similar Asymmetry, Higher flare potential with the Wicked Siege.
To try to make the 2 balls equal I would think that the break down would have lower totals with the same ratio and pin distance.

I still like my Idea for the Double Thumb. Its going to be something like 60-4-30 and use the double thumb balance hole to tune it in.

I would not put the low flare layout on a low flare ball unless I was really digging deep to fill a Huge arsenal.
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Re: Layout Question

Post by river800 »

EricHartwell wrote:My bad on the .020 diff, that is the diff of the arson low flare, I got the 2 posts confused.

.011/.030=.367 Differential Ratio of the breakdown
.020/.055=.364 Differential Ratio of the wicked siege

Similar Asymmetry, Higher flare potential with the Wicked Siege.
To try to make the 2 balls equal I would think that the break down would have lower totals with the same ratio and pin distance.

I still like my Idea for the Double Thumb. Its going to be something like 60-4-30 and use the double thumb balance hole to tune it in.

I would not put the low flare layout on a low flare ball unless I was really digging deep to fill a Huge arsenal.
The only reason why I suggested the benchmark with a bit longer pin and a small P3 to start was to bridge the gap between the strike king and the wicked siege. I guess we'll have to see if that is what he is thinking of. :)
Stats:
Right handed
Pap is 4 3/4 x 3/8 up currently
Speed around 16.5 off hand
Tilt in the 14-16* range
Rev rate: around 325 - 350 or so
Axis rotation in the 25-70* range
I bowl on Brunswick synthetics. Ths...
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Re: Layout Question

Post by rf67pccb »

My buddy (Bowlingforsoup) gave me a rarely used Radical Reax v2 Pearl that I just finished plugging and drilled today. I will trial it drilled at 75x2.25x50 based on a earlier suggestion from Eric. Resurfaced 360/600/1500 sandpaper). I have been extremely pleased with all suggestions and look forward to using it on fresh THS practice session tomorrow.

Based on my current arsenal I was thinking about the Rocket or Crux: Any ideas how to layout either of those two? I am primarily bowling on either a 38 or 40 foot lighter volume pattern. One center is 7-7 (38) and the other 10-10 (40).

My current arsenal is listed earlier in this post. Thx
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Re: Layout Question

Post by rf67pccb »

The Reax drilled at 75x2.25x50 at 360/600/1500 sandpaper first try is a beast and was unexpected. I have not checked the static weights yet but the cg is kicked way right and I am trying to decide on the balance hole placement. It seems to clear the heads nicely and the movement to the pocket is nice, if I swing to the dry correctly. If it stays in the puddle early it labors to finish. THS 40 feet 10-10 synthetics. I am not sure what it can do on fresh yet so I likely should reserve my decision until I have another practice session. So far I like what I see. As a reference I was standing on 33 and swinging between 3rd and 4th arrow out to say 12 or so trying to stay away from the dirt outside 10.

Based on the reaction I saw on broken down THS and wanting to see the same type of shape on fresh what balance hole would be the best option? I do no not want to screw this up and P1 holes scare me as it seems easy to create a dud.

I still have the urge to try either the Crux pearl or the Rocket. Eric et al.....any drilling suggestions on those balls?
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Re: Layout Question

Post by river800 »

rf67pccb wrote:The Reax drilled at 75x2.25x50 at 360/600/1500 sandpaper first try is a beast and was unexpected. I have not checked the static weights yet but the cg is kicked way right and I am trying to decide on the balance hole placement. It seems to clear the heads nicely and the movement to the pocket is nice, if I swing to the dry correctly. If it stays in the puddle early it labors to finish. THS 40 feet 10-10 synthetics. I am not sure what it can do on fresh yet so I likely should reserve my decision until I have another practice session. So far I like what I see. As a reference I was standing on 33 and swinging between 3rd and 4th arrow out to say 12 or so trying to stay away from the dirt outside 10.

Based on the reaction I saw on broken down THS and wanting to see the same type of shape on fresh what balance hole would be the best option? I do no not want to screw this up and P1 holes scare me as it seems easy to create a dud.

I still have the urge to try either the Crux pearl or the Rocket. Eric et al.....any drilling suggestions on those balls?
Ok, this is your current arsenal:
Wicked Siege 55x3.5x35
Reax V 2 pearl 75x2.25x50 (how much side weight?)
Punch Out 80x4.25x50 small 3/4" axis hole
Strike King 80x4.25x55
Vibe 60x5.5x30 (Motion Hole)

The Crux pearl would be too strong for what you bowl on. If you got the Storm Rocket, it could go between the Reax V 2 pearl and the Punchout. Rocket with maybe a 70 x 4 x 40.

Double check with Erichartwell first.
Stats:
Right handed
Pap is 4 3/4 x 3/8 up currently
Speed around 16.5 off hand
Tilt in the 14-16* range
Rev rate: around 325 - 350 or so
Axis rotation in the 25-70* range
I bowl on Brunswick synthetics. Ths...
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Re: Layout Question

Post by JohnP »

A P2 hole should leave the reaction as it is. However, since you don't want to weaken the ball any if I were drilling for you I'd make it a P 2.5 hole. -- JohnP
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Re: Layout Question

Post by rf67pccb »

Thanks for the input John P and River. The Crux seemed like a awesome new piece of equipment and I was hopeful I might use it. But being realistic the Rocket makes more sense.

I will check the static weight on the Reax and map out the P2.5 hole Monday. Also, the Rocket is continuing to call my name and I would be willing to try the 70x4x40 that was mentioned if that fits best with my current arsenal.

There are monthly sport tourneys in SC that are bowled on usually longer patterns. How about a Crux layout for those? The last couple were bowled on 44 foot Slowinski patterns.

Thanks again for the great input!
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Re: Layout Question

Post by EricHartwell »

When you recheck the static weight also recheck your PAP. It is not unusual to have a different PAP on a low flaring layout as compared to High flaring layouts.
Then use the actual PAP from the drilled ball to to determine the Gradient line and balance hole locations.

If you want even more accuracy have the ball spun on a determinator and utilize the actual PSA to anchor the Gradient line.
Eric Hartwell

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Re: Layout Question

Post by rf67pccb »

Thanks Eric. I do not think there is access to a determinator locally but I will check that and the actual PAP on the Reax. Thanks for all the timely replies.
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Re: Layout Question

Post by river800 »

rf67pccb wrote:Thanks for the input John P and River. The Crux seemed like a awesome new piece of equipment and I was hopeful I might use it. But being realistic the Rocket makes more sense.

I will check the static weight on the Reax and map out the P2.5 hole Monday. Also, the Rocket is continuing to call my name and I would be willing to try the 70x4x40 that was mentioned if that fits best with my current arsenal.

There are monthly sport tourneys in SC that are bowled on usually longer patterns. How about a Crux layout for those? The last couple were bowled on 44 foot Slowinski patterns.

Thanks again for the great input!
I forgot to mention this, but the actual drill angle for that layout (after drilling) for the rocket could land up being a bit different which "is ok" because of the mas bias being basically in or just to the bottom of the thumb hole. Due to your axis rotation the ball will hook on the backend, but it has to do it at the right time. With this layout, the actual low rg axis which is the pin is going to shift to the right just a bit which is fine. With the slightly strong pin position, it will get the ball to burn some of the axis rotation and should be just a bit earlier than the reax 2 pearl. Will have to play with surface a bit to dial it in. Should have at least 1/2 side after drilling depending on top weight of the ball so there should be a chance for a hole if for some reason you need to add one to fine tune it further.

I have seen the rocket in action on some of the videos now and it does read the midlane a bit more so it should fit nicely in your arsenal.

Do you have a pattern name and volume of these 44 ft sport patterns along with the ratio by chance? The crux hybrid would be your strongest ball. You might need to add 1 more ball to go either between the crux and siege or to go under the wicked siege for the longer sport patterns as your other equipment most likely won't work very well on that longer heavier oil.
Stats:
Right handed
Pap is 4 3/4 x 3/8 up currently
Speed around 16.5 off hand
Tilt in the 14-16* range
Rev rate: around 325 - 350 or so
Axis rotation in the 25-70* range
I bowl on Brunswick synthetics. Ths...
rf67pccb
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Re: Layout Question

Post by rf67pccb »

The sport shot I was referring to was the Slowinski comfort catalyst and was very tough.

I checked the static weight on the REAX v2 solid and the side weight was 2 ounces. I drilled a 1" p2.5 balance hole and I am very happy with the shape and reaction. This ball fits between the Strike King and Wicked Siege. I am still not sure how the Punch Out will work out as I have not seen very good carry on 40 foot 10-10 THS.

I am surprised how the REAX clears the front and the nice move down lane. I guess I was thinking it would be something that would be slightly below the SK. At practice today on fresh the SK was not enough but the REAX was just right. Thanks for the layout and balance hole info.

I ended up putting a smallish P1 hole in the Punch Out and that may have been a mistake. I likely will plug the balance hole and rethink. I have tried several different surfaces and did not care for the ball motion and lack of carry.
Rorey Faiola
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Right Handed
Speed 16.6 Off Hand
AT 12
AR 80
RR 300
PAP 4 7/8 Over 7/8 Up
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