beat the carrydown

Which layout is right for me?

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mergy
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beat the carrydown

Post by mergy »

Hi All: To beat the carrydown at league,which occurs by 2nd game,after hour practice & the first game.

Got a GURU @15#4ozs., 3-4 pin,3.2ozs.TW. Thinking a more aggressive ball to get thru the carry down & use for the last 2 games. My V2 solid works good for the 1st game,which is usually my highest scoring game.
I bowl straight up 10 board on non-wood lanes. I have trouble moving left and carrying the 10 pin, prefer to stay in my comfort zone.

I am thinking Of Radical's 70x5x70 layout. What does everybody think?

My specs, 14-15mph(hand), 14tilt,40-50rotation, Senior bowler(75), 190avg.,

Thanks all for your help!
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Dustin
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Re: beat the carrydown

Post by Dustin »

What is the layout on the V2?
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MegaMav
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Re: beat the carrydown

Post by MegaMav »

Add surface and roll it, not turn it, or spin it, on top of the outer edge of the carry down as direct as possible.
Likely straight up 12-13-14 area depending upon how bad it is.
Thats how I beat it. Its not easy to do and it takes practice. It can be done. 699 Tuesday doing just that.

Proprietors that are reading this:

This is what happens when you overblock lanes and drop the reverse brush TOO EARLY in the cycle.
Balls must have time to slow down IN THE PATTERN to get good ball motion and avoid this carrydown issue.
Start blending patterns front to back to avoid this problem.
The "carrydown doesnt exist on modern lanes" is a load of BS, walk down the lanes and see for yourself when lanes get tight and balls are later and later. ITS NOT "BURNING UP" if the ball doesnt complete the hook phase.
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Re: beat the carrydown

Post by rrb6699 »

.....or stay in the skid phase too long.

if you know you are throwing the ball well (fairly consistent) and you go from strikes to taps then you can make the change you think will work. thats why throwing and maintaining consistency is the best recipe for success.
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Re: beat the carrydown

Post by mergy »

In response to Dustin's ?. The V2 layout is-70x5x35, no bh.

Still looking for layout help on my new GURU,as to be able to use it on THS!

Thanks guys!
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Dustin
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Re: beat the carrydown

Post by Dustin »

I don't see your rev rate listed. Your V2 is at a total of 105 with a 2:1 ratio so going 70 x 5 x 70 will be a little lazy on the end. Consider lowering the ration 60 x 5 x 40. Reason for not carrying the 10 as you move in the the larger amount of oil in the middle and your ball going to long with the 70* drill angle. If you have your rev rate we can be more accurate with a layout.
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Re: beat the carrydown

Post by scotts33 »

IMO Eric is correct....."Add surface and roll it, not turn it, or spin it, on top of the outer edge of the carry down as direct as possible.
Likely straight up 12-13-14 area depending upon how bad it is.
That's how I beat it. Its not easy to do and it takes practice. It can be done. 699 Tuesday doing just that


Some balls (layout) will help BUT it's the technique used and the bowler NOT the ball except.... MORE for surface.
mergy
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Re: beat the carrydown

Post by mergy »

Dustin, Rev Rate runs 240-250!
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Re: beat the carrydown

Post by EricHartwell »

mergy wrote:Still looking for layout help on my new GURU,as to be able to use it on THS!
I'm with Dustin, I think the 140* total on your suggested 70-5-70 layout is a bit much.

I always start by figuring your Benchmark ..... 60-4-40

60-4-60 is a Control layout for your specs. Usually a good choice for THS. But...
With your V2 drilled 70-5-35 I don't think drilling the Guru with that control layout will compliment it very well for the purpose you intend.

I suggest drilling the Guru 70-5.25-55 (pin in the middle finger)
Depending on your PAP and grip span, Pin to PAP and VAL angle may change slightly to drill the pin out completely.
Eric Hartwell

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PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
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12* tilt
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mergy
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Re: beat the carrydown

Post by mergy »

Thanks guys, I'll try that layout and let you know the results!

BTW, PAP is 4 7/8 over by 3/4 up(RH) make any difference in your layout numbers for the GURU?
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Re: beat the carrydown

Post by EricHartwell »

So for it doesn't need any modification.
Do you know what your middle finger span is?
If it is less than 4-1/4" cut to cut then the VAL angle will need to be made larger to drill the pin out completely.
Eric Hartwell

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mergy
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Re: beat the carrydown

Post by mergy »

Middle finger span is 4", that help?
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EricHartwell
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Re: beat the carrydown

Post by EricHartwell »

70-5.25-57
Eric Hartwell

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PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
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12* tilt
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mergy
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Re: beat the carrydown

Post by mergy »

Thanks, will try the layout!
mergy
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Re: beat the carrydown

Post by mergy »

Eric, pin is 3.25, CG is left of Center 1.25 do you see any problems with the pin in the Middle finger layout on the Guru or is everything good to go with layout as you stated earlier?
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Re: beat the carrydown

Post by EricHartwell »

mergy wrote:Eric, pin is 3.25, CG is left of Center 1.25 do you see any problems with the pin in the Middle finger layout on the Guru or is everything good to go with layout as you stated earlier?
Good thing we are talking this out. That is not a good thing. The Cg will end up on the negative side of your grip.
Time to re-evaluate.
Have your driller draw up the 70-5.25-57 and weight it to see how the static weights end up.

With the Cg offset like it is a layout with a shorter pin to PAP or a lower ratio would be easiest to maintain legal static weight.

Thinking out loud here...

Option 1: Lower the Drill angle to move the Cg.... 40-5.25-57
This will get the ball started sooner and get it to roll over the carrydown. Not a bad option for what you are looking for.

Option 2:A shorter pin to PAP layout will cover boards and have a continuous hook motion. Not what you are looking for to stay in your comfort zone. But, it would be a good layout to move your feet left and hook the ball around the carry down.... 70-2.75-35

Option 3: A lower ratio sport layout could be the ticket for you. When I model layouts with a 70* VAL and 5" pin to PAP the pin is only about 1/4" from your middle finger hole..... 40-5.5-70
use a P4 balance hole if it weighs out with too much thumb weight.

Option 4: 60-4.25-60 pin in the ring finger Control layout. This would be My personal preference without regard to what you are looking for. Another way to play around the carrydown.

As for making a recommendation to give you what you want, Option 1 ... 40-5.5-57
An early forward rolling layout. Play the lane as MegaMav suggested.
Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
mergy
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Re: beat the carrydown

Post by mergy »

So, after talking to my ball driller, we ended up with a layout of 60x4x50,sorta control for a strong ball.
At league,3 game set, fresh ths, Played inside more than I ever played,16,17 board @ arrows to 6,7 @ BP. Ball recovered & turned the corner great. Ended up 226.
2nd game,transition & carrydown,was missing right at beginning,so moved right & straighter & a little more speed & started more x's. ended up- 194.
3rd game, still with the new GURU,as I wanted to get some mileage on the ball, playing up 7,8,9, leaving corner pins,7&10's, had 2 open frames, ended up 180.

I think this ball is what I can use inside & Swing it or up the boards,with more speed!

Thanx for the help guys!
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