New Member, Layout/Arsenal advice, slightly speed dom

Which layout is right for me?

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EricHartwell
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Posts: 3894
Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
Speed: 16 off hand
Rev Rate: 330
Axis Tilt: 12
Axis Rotation: 45
Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
Medium Oil Ball: EVO pearl, True Motion, Columbia Command, DV8 Intimidator
Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer, Track Spare+
Location: Michigan

Re: New Member, Layout/Arsenal advice, slightly speed dom

Post by EricHartwell »

RadicalRogue wrote: July 25th, 2022, 4:11 am Thanks, that makes sense regarding what you mean by dull and matte. I wasn't sure if there was more do it that just which grit.

Would this be an accurate understanding of why which layout on which ball? Kind of
use the Results to amplify what it is made to do, use the Solid for benchmark as it shouldn't have trouble reading the lane considering my speed dominant nature, and calm the Trailblazer down a bit in the control spot?
The Results is a long and strong type ball so Put the Long and Strong layout on it, You don't want to start the core too early and start working against what you want it to do.
Yes the Solid as a benchmark using the friction of the dull cover to get the ball rolling sooner. It is a Strong layout.
The Trainblazer when you look at the core numbers is a weaker core, Ideal for the placement in this arsenal as a Control piece.
Using surface prep to dial in your skin length.


When to use each. This is what I have no confidence in my understanding of:
L&S - THS as the lanes transition and the BM is starting to cross over the head pin? Med/heavy to Long Sport conditions where a fast read off the spot is needed?
BM - pretty much start every session to get a sense of the lanes and pattern and adjust accordingly. Yes
Control - THS is playing Wet/Dry, Over/Under? Drier lane conditions? Shorter sport patterns? Need the ball to not be super fast reading the dry? Yes

So a typical THS night might start with the BM, move to the L&S 2nd/3rd game, then down to the Control if the L&S gets too touchy? Something like that? Maybe?
Sometimes I will go Benchmark, Control and then move in Deep with the Long and Strong. Kind of like what you mention below

Where a sport night might go from the RS to the TB to add a little length/later BP and might not see the L&S on certain types of patterns? And vice versa.


I'll get the Results Solid drilled up first, then do a Tilt/Rev/Speed analysis in case I'm deviating enough to alter the other layouts. As I try to do the math, looks like 55 x 35 on a BM works regardless if I'm at 10* or 12.5*, yet the others might change. So seems prudent to find out how much tilt I'm able to maintain before drilling up all 3.
Comments in color above

Grip changes affect release specs as well as changing weights.
If you are thinking grip change I would be trying it on an older ball and Recheck your release specs.
Then drill up the new equipment with the new grip and release specs.
I don't mind readjusting my recommendations.
Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
RadicalRogue
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Re: New Member, Layout/Arsenal advice, slightly speed dom

Post by RadicalRogue »

yeah, I've had 3 FSO's look at my span, and they all concur I'm an oddity with equal distance finger from my thumb.

I tried to have a slight tweak to my span on the Results Solid, and I think I need to undo those changes :) My track is hitting or almost hitting the thumb hole now. I've lost half the distance from the 1st track to the thumb hole most of the time.

So before I drill the Results, I'm working with FSO1 to decide on something closer to his original finger angles. Perhaps I'll just go from lip to oval inserts to see if the vacugrip lip inserts have been too snug


Overall, very pleased with how the Results solid looks when I release is correctly, just not happy with where the track is, which I think it affecting it's performance. What I do notice, when I have a good release, the ball spins slowly but at the BP it's like the rotation triples. It's really noticeable. And when I have a bad release, it never spins up, so doesn't drive into the pocket.
RadicalRogue
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Re: New Member, Layout/Arsenal advice, slightly speed dom

Post by RadicalRogue »

Experience so far with the BM layout on the Results Solid:
I have bowled 3 patterns now, and a good number of practice games, and getting a good feel for it. I've only used it in each league the past week, and found it very controllable. I did use a different release the first 3 sessions, which really freaked me out as my track was hitting the Thumb Hole at times. I was trying to reduce the usual stress on the wrist during the entire swing.

Eventually, during practice, I did some comparison with some of my 14# stuff to figure out some of the track issue was that release. Though I have also discovered the slight changes the FSO made to my pitches has lowered my tilt, so my track is probably 1" higher (1/2" closer to the thumb, so presuming 1/2" more on the other side of the ball as well).

I am finding the RS to be very controllable, I've yet see it be jumpy in any way. If anything, I need to make sure I hit it enough or it never spins up downlane. It's really nice to watch as well. When I release well, the ball seems to have a slow spin downlane, then has that very noticeable increase in rotational speed as it enters the roll into the pins. I'm not used to seeing that so pronounced.

Yesterday I bowled 13 games, mixing the RS with multiple of my 14# arsenal, trying to figure out if I liked ovals vs lips, 0 F/R pitch vs 1/2" reverse pitch etc. The condition of those lanes helped greatly with noticing the difference in where the RS would read and when it would hook. My biggest takeaway is that ball is never jumpy, and seems to be exactly what I was hoping for, something I can use on most any pattern to some extent with minor surface adjustments.

Can't wait to get the Results drilled up for the L&S look, though I'm holding off until I get my finger pitch questions figured out. Hopefully there are no "span" issues, and just re-drilling the pitches of the RS will be all that is needed. I do think I am liking oversized oval inserts over my older Vacu-grip Lip inserts. Still unsure on 0 pitch vs 1/2" reverse, going to try ovals in one of my 0 pitch balls for a comparison of the pitches with the same insert feel. And have to figure out the correct lateral change, as the one of the RS lost too much tilt and the holes intersected just at the bottom of the inserts.
RadicalRogue
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Re: New Member, Layout/Arsenal advice, slightly speed dom

Post by RadicalRogue »

Hello Eric,

So, I'm basically confused at this point. I had my FSO1 drill the Results much closer to how all my Motiv's are drilled, just with Oval inserts instead of Lips. Also, he made minor adjustments to lateral pitches to try to lessen a callous spot on the inside of my Middle finger just under the nail edge.

So the Results Solid has a cut to cut span of 4 3/8 for each finger, and 1/2 Rev pitch on the finger. For the Results, FSO1 went with 4 1/4 & 1/8" Rev for MF, 4 5/16 with 1/4" rev for RF.

The curious part to me, is the flare. Either I completely misunderstand P2P distances, or the Results core is really strange.
  • Flare on the solid is maybe 2". No kidding, it looks like what I would picture a short pin or extreme control layout looking like
  • In comparison, the Motiv's with originally 3 5/8 and now 4 5/8 P2P have flare lines large enough for my pinky between each line. So what, around 4-5" of flare for 7-8 lines of oil?
  • So the Results, with the 75x4x35 layout, looks to have even LESS flare than the solid. The flare lines are almost touching
I was expecting, with 4" pins, for their to be 4-6" of flare on these just like the Motiv's. I suspect, as a result of the low flare, especially the Solid, is VERY controllable. To the point, I'm not sure I would need a control ball with the Trailblazer, as so far I'm seeing the Results Solid never be snappy or jumpy off the spot. Does it make sense I am only seeing flare around 2" on these 2 balls with 4" P2P?
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EricHartwell
Trusted Source
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Posts: 3894
Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
Speed: 16 off hand
Rev Rate: 330
Axis Tilt: 12
Axis Rotation: 45
Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
Medium Oil Ball: EVO pearl, True Motion, Columbia Command, DV8 Intimidator
Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer, Track Spare+
Location: Michigan

Re: New Member, Layout/Arsenal advice, slightly speed dom

Post by EricHartwell »

Recheck your PAP on the Results Solid.

Then measure the layout from that.
.
I suspect that your PAP changed with the grip change.
Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
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