Layout advice

Which layout is right for me?

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Walkerman10000
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Positive Axis Point: 4 5/8' ---> by 1/4" ^
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Re: Layout advice

Post by Walkerman10000 » October 18th, 2021, 11:53 pm

On the layout that you suggested MegaMav for me on the Trailblazer 75 x 3.75 x 35 with my PAP is that going to put the pin in my ring finger? I know years ago I laid out a Meanstreak Brawler 55 x 3.5 x 45 and it had to be adjusted to drill out the pin. I was just wondering if I need to be on the lookout for that. Or maybe with the 35 VAL angle the pin will be above and to the right of my ring finger? My span is 4 7/16” on the middle finger, and 4 13/32” on the ring finger cut to cut. I’m thinking the mass bias will be inside of my thumb hole as well.
4 5/8” —> x 1/4” ^ PAP
55* rotation
15* tilt
330 rpm’s
15 mph off my hand

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EricHartwell
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Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
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Rev Rate: 330
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Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous
Medium Oil Ball: Hammer Nail, Brunswick True Motion
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Location: Michigan

Re: Layout advice

Post by EricHartwell » October 19th, 2021, 2:00 am

75x3.5x35
The Pin will be 25/32" from the ring finger.
If you are worried about warranty It will have to be adjusted.
Taking the VAL Angle to 30* will get it 1" away.
Or shortening the Pin to PAP to 3-3/16" and leaving the 35* VAL will do it also.
Or 3-1/4" Pin to PAP and 34* VAL

Adjusting to Pin in the Ring finger would be 4-3/8 x 45

I think I would adjust both the Pin to PAP and the VAL ............ 75-3.25-34

This is all assuming you use finger inserts, 31/32" drilled hole.
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Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand

Walkerman10000
Member
Member
Posts: 53
Joined: March 3rd, 2013, 1:56 pm
THS Average: 195
Sport Average: 190
Positive Axis Point: 4 5/8' ---> by 1/4" ^
Speed: 15 mph off my hand
Rev Rate: 330
Axis Tilt: 15
Axis Rotation: 55
Heavy Oil Ball: storm virtual gravity nano
Medium Oil Ball: storm crossroad
Light Oil Ball: 900 global link s30
Preferred Company: Storm and Brunswick
Contact:

Re: Layout advice

Post by Walkerman10000 » October 19th, 2021, 2:14 am

Well I do not use finger inserts, but I do use a thumb slug, I like the fact I can adjust the hole size with tape and keep a consistent feel. I haven’t used grips in years.
4 5/8” —> x 1/4” ^ PAP
55* rotation
15* tilt
330 rpm’s
15 mph off my hand

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MegaMav
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Rev Rate: 350
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Heavy Oil Ball: Radical - Informer
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Location: Malta, NY

Re: Layout advice

Post by MegaMav » October 19th, 2021, 11:53 am

This may help:

Image
“When you prepare for everything, you’re ready for anything.” - Bill Walsh

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EricHartwell
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Posts: 3800
Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
Speed: 16 off hand
Rev Rate: 330
Axis Tilt: 12
Axis Rotation: 45
Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous
Medium Oil Ball: Hammer Nail, Brunswick True Motion
Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer, Columbia Nitrous
Location: Michigan

Re: Layout advice

Post by EricHartwell » October 20th, 2021, 12:30 am

Walkerman10000 wrote:
October 19th, 2021, 2:14 am
Well I do not use finger inserts, but I do use a thumb slug, I like the fact I can adjust the hole size with tape and keep a consistent feel. I haven’t used grips in years.
What is your ring finger size?
5/8" gives the 1" separation with the suggested layout 75-3.75-35
Maybe someday Brunswick will use the Dot on the Radical designs and then you can have any layout without any adjustment to keep the warranty.

Personally, I have told drillers on more than one occasion to void the warranty and drill it like I want.
Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand

Walkerman10000
Member
Member
Posts: 53
Joined: March 3rd, 2013, 1:56 pm
THS Average: 195
Sport Average: 190
Positive Axis Point: 4 5/8' ---> by 1/4" ^
Speed: 15 mph off my hand
Rev Rate: 330
Axis Tilt: 15
Axis Rotation: 55
Heavy Oil Ball: storm virtual gravity nano
Medium Oil Ball: storm crossroad
Light Oil Ball: 900 global link s30
Preferred Company: Storm and Brunswick
Contact:

Re: Layout advice

Post by Walkerman10000 » October 20th, 2021, 8:33 am

I’ll have to ask my PSO what my finger sizes are, I just know it’s still a finger tip without grips, and my finger holes are ovaled as well. I also use the vise bio skin tape on my fingers so they are cut a bit oversized than my actual size so I can use the tape and still get in the finger holes. Also when I do purchase the Trailblazer from the proshop I’ll give them the 75 x 3.75 x 35 layout and just tell them to punch it up no matter if it voids the warranty or not. I’ve drilled many balls over the years that violated the 1 in rule, and I’ve only had 1 actually crack on me.
4 5/8” —> x 1/4” ^ PAP
55* rotation
15* tilt
330 rpm’s
15 mph off my hand

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MegaMav
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Posts: 4634
Joined: April 27th, 2007, 5:00 am
THS Average: 225
Sport Average: 200
Positive Axis Point: 4 15/16 Over 7/8 Up
Speed: 15.25 MPH - Camera
Rev Rate: 350
Axis Tilt: 14
Axis Rotation: 45
Heavy Oil Ball: Radical - Informer
Medium Oil Ball: Brunswick - Knock Out
Light Oil Ball: Radical - Bonus Pearl
Preferred Company: Radical Bowling Technologies
Location: Malta, NY

Re: Layout advice

Post by MegaMav » October 20th, 2021, 8:23 pm

1/2"+ is usually fine.
I've found Brunswick arent sticklers for 1" rule, I've been fine with warranty claims at over 1/2".
I wouldnt change the layout too much, dynamic balls become tougher to get right for slower ball speeds.
“When you prepare for everything, you’re ready for anything.” - Bill Walsh

Walkerman10000
Member
Member
Posts: 53
Joined: March 3rd, 2013, 1:56 pm
THS Average: 195
Sport Average: 190
Positive Axis Point: 4 5/8' ---> by 1/4" ^
Speed: 15 mph off my hand
Rev Rate: 330
Axis Tilt: 15
Axis Rotation: 55
Heavy Oil Ball: storm virtual gravity nano
Medium Oil Ball: storm crossroad
Light Oil Ball: 900 global link s30
Preferred Company: Storm and Brunswick
Contact:

Re: Layout advice

Post by Walkerman10000 » October 22nd, 2021, 2:34 am

Eric can you show me what 70 x 5.5 x 60 would look like with your program, and how can I get that program that you use as well? I’m thinking it should be pin below the middle finger and mass bias kicked fairly far to the right of the thumb close to the VAL line
4 5/8” —> x 1/4” ^ PAP
55* rotation
15* tilt
330 rpm’s
15 mph off my hand

User avatar
EricHartwell
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Trusted Source
Posts: 3800
Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
Speed: 16 off hand
Rev Rate: 330
Axis Tilt: 12
Axis Rotation: 45
Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous
Medium Oil Ball: Hammer Nail, Brunswick True Motion
Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer, Columbia Nitrous
Location: Michigan

Re: Layout advice

Post by EricHartwell » October 22nd, 2021, 9:57 pm

70-5.5-60.PNG
I would adjust this one to Pin in the Middle finger.

I was involved in the testing of the program so I got lucky.
It turned in to a pay for app and I am not a facebook user.
I never got a look at the final product.
It is a powerful tool with the ability to use a data base and keep the info for proshop use.

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=9436&p=91678#p91678
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Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand

Walkerman10000
Member
Member
Posts: 53
Joined: March 3rd, 2013, 1:56 pm
THS Average: 195
Sport Average: 190
Positive Axis Point: 4 5/8' ---> by 1/4" ^
Speed: 15 mph off my hand
Rev Rate: 330
Axis Tilt: 15
Axis Rotation: 55
Heavy Oil Ball: storm virtual gravity nano
Medium Oil Ball: storm crossroad
Light Oil Ball: 900 global link s30
Preferred Company: Storm and Brunswick
Contact:

Re: Layout advice

Post by Walkerman10000 » October 24th, 2021, 5:01 pm

On my sport pattern layouts are they for asymmetrical balls only? Can I use the same VAL angles on symmetrical balls also? My all time favorite ball ever is being rereleased for a 3rd time in the track heat. I shot my first ever 300 with the old pink track triton heat, and I cashed in a couple of pba regional events with the purple rerelease of the heat as well. Im wanting to buy 3 heats and I’ll probably end up buying about 5 of them before they go off the shelves so I can have a couple on the shelf for replacements. So I want to drill one of the 3 for medium length sport patterns, and would like a suggested VAL angle for it. The other two will be strictly house shot beasts, one I’ll put my benchmark layout on and probably shine it. The other I’m going to put a control layout on and keep the surface dull, I’ll probably adjust it from the box 2000 as i see fit though. I’m open to any other layout suggestions if you don’t think they would work. This is literally one of the only balls that I ever buy more than one of.
4 5/8” —> x 1/4” ^ PAP
55* rotation
15* tilt
330 rpm’s
15 mph off my hand

User avatar
EricHartwell
Trusted Source
Trusted Source
Posts: 3800
Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
Speed: 16 off hand
Rev Rate: 330
Axis Tilt: 12
Axis Rotation: 45
Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous
Medium Oil Ball: Hammer Nail, Brunswick True Motion
Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer, Columbia Nitrous
Location: Michigan

Re: Layout advice

Post by EricHartwell » October 24th, 2021, 6:20 pm

Yes, the Sport layouts are for Asyms.

Looks like there were 9 different releases of the Heat.

http://www.trackbowling.com/site_search.html?query=heat

http://www.trackbowling.com/products/re ... s/dry-heat
This Purple one?

The new one is Purple too, they are calling it Violet. Medium differential ball.
http://www.trackbowling.com/products/ba ... mance/heat

Symmetrical layouts for all three
Benchmark ................... xx-4.5-35
Control ....................... xx-4.5-50 adjust to Pin in the Ring Finger 75-4 3/8-50
low flare ..................... xx-5.5-30

Control Layout at factory 2000 grit could be first out of the bag on the Med sport shots.
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Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand

Walkerman10000
Member
Member
Posts: 53
Joined: March 3rd, 2013, 1:56 pm
THS Average: 195
Sport Average: 190
Positive Axis Point: 4 5/8' ---> by 1/4" ^
Speed: 15 mph off my hand
Rev Rate: 330
Axis Tilt: 15
Axis Rotation: 55
Heavy Oil Ball: storm virtual gravity nano
Medium Oil Ball: storm crossroad
Light Oil Ball: 900 global link s30
Preferred Company: Storm and Brunswick
Contact:

Re: Layout advice

Post by Walkerman10000 » October 24th, 2021, 7:00 pm

I guess track called it the red one. It was the re-release of the original track triton heat that was pink, this ball was exactly the same except for coverstock color. My 3 I had to my eye looked more dark purple than red though.

http://www.trackbowling.com/products/retired-balls/heat
4 5/8” —> x 1/4” ^ PAP
55* rotation
15* tilt
330 rpm’s
15 mph off my hand

Walkerman10000
Member
Member
Posts: 53
Joined: March 3rd, 2013, 1:56 pm
THS Average: 195
Sport Average: 190
Positive Axis Point: 4 5/8' ---> by 1/4" ^
Speed: 15 mph off my hand
Rev Rate: 330
Axis Tilt: 15
Axis Rotation: 55
Heavy Oil Ball: storm virtual gravity nano
Medium Oil Ball: storm crossroad
Light Oil Ball: 900 global link s30
Preferred Company: Storm and Brunswick
Contact:

Re: Layout advice

Post by Walkerman10000 » October 24th, 2021, 8:01 pm

I got a copy of my drill sheet yesterday, so here’s my info for your program Eric.

Middle finger hole size is 3/4 ovaled to 13/16 with 3/8 reverse and 3/16 left pitches
Ringer finger hole size is 11/16 ovaled to 3/4 with 0 and 5/8 right pitches
Middle finger span is 4 7/16 cut to cut
Rings finger span is 4 3/8 cut to cut
Thumb is 1 1/4 slug with 1/4 reverse and 0 with a 25 degree oval milled 1 inch wide

I adjusted my low flare control layout on my symmetrical equipment from
xx-5.5-60 to 75-5 3/8-55 to put the pin about dead center of my middle finger. Does that look good to you?
AC1380F7-98F9-4212-BDD3-A8A4CDD251CE.jpeg
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4 5/8” —> x 1/4” ^ PAP
55* rotation
15* tilt
330 rpm’s
15 mph off my hand

User avatar
EricHartwell
Trusted Source
Trusted Source
Posts: 3800
Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
Speed: 16 off hand
Rev Rate: 330
Axis Tilt: 12
Axis Rotation: 45
Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous
Medium Oil Ball: Hammer Nail, Brunswick True Motion
Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer, Columbia Nitrous
Location: Michigan

Re: Layout advice

Post by EricHartwell » October 25th, 2021, 12:11 am

Pin in the Middle finger will be very low flare.
Not going to get much action from the core to get it to roll.
I would recommend something like this for a Higher flaring ball greater than .040 differential.
Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand

Walkerman10000
Member
Member
Posts: 53
Joined: March 3rd, 2013, 1:56 pm
THS Average: 195
Sport Average: 190
Positive Axis Point: 4 5/8' ---> by 1/4" ^
Speed: 15 mph off my hand
Rev Rate: 330
Axis Tilt: 15
Axis Rotation: 55
Heavy Oil Ball: storm virtual gravity nano
Medium Oil Ball: storm crossroad
Light Oil Ball: 900 global link s30
Preferred Company: Storm and Brunswick
Contact:

Re: Layout advice

Post by Walkerman10000 » October 25th, 2021, 12:53 am

Well I was wanting to use that layout on a roto grip hustle pbr in order to have a ball to play when the lanes are burned up really bad, or something to use in like games 6-8 in regional events on short patterns or low volume patterns. The ball has a rg of 2.53 and a diff of .030. The ball does have pretty strong cover on it as well. I guess what would you recommend for a layout for me on this ball for what I’m wanting it for?
4 5/8” —> x 1/4” ^ PAP
55* rotation
15* tilt
330 rpm’s
15 mph off my hand

User avatar
EricHartwell
Trusted Source
Trusted Source
Posts: 3800
Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
Speed: 16 off hand
Rev Rate: 330
Axis Tilt: 12
Axis Rotation: 45
Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous
Medium Oil Ball: Hammer Nail, Brunswick True Motion
Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer, Columbia Nitrous
Location: Michigan

Re: Layout advice

Post by EricHartwell » October 25th, 2021, 9:36 pm

Sure, Pin in the middle finger to get a ball with Minimum flare. Sometimes you don't need any help from the core.

All I was saying above is I would recommend this layout to calm down a High Differential ball.
Now, somewhat neuter a med strength core or completely kill a Low differential ball.
Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand

Walkerman10000
Member
Member
Posts: 53
Joined: March 3rd, 2013, 1:56 pm
THS Average: 195
Sport Average: 190
Positive Axis Point: 4 5/8' ---> by 1/4" ^
Speed: 15 mph off my hand
Rev Rate: 330
Axis Tilt: 15
Axis Rotation: 55
Heavy Oil Ball: storm virtual gravity nano
Medium Oil Ball: storm crossroad
Light Oil Ball: 900 global link s30
Preferred Company: Storm and Brunswick
Contact:

Re: Layout advice

Post by Walkerman10000 » October 26th, 2021, 12:43 pm

I found an Storm All road 16lbs for 80 bucks and I snapped it up because I love hybrids and especially love that’s it’s the NRG hybrid as well. In the past I have hated the road series, I could of drilled my previous road balls wrong, but for me they all were very over/under and super speed sensitive. So I would like a recommended layout for a medium rg high diff ball with a super strong cover. 16lb specs are 2.52 rg .058 diff. This series of balls is actually stronger in 16 than in 15. I was thinking either my control layout or strongest. I’m wanting this ball to play game one or two on house shot’s that are slicker and higher volume and for short sport patterns that are higher volume like cheetah.
4 5/8” —> x 1/4” ^ PAP
55* rotation
15* tilt
330 rpm’s
15 mph off my hand

User avatar
EricHartwell
Trusted Source
Trusted Source
Posts: 3800
Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
Speed: 16 off hand
Rev Rate: 330
Axis Tilt: 12
Axis Rotation: 45
Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous
Medium Oil Ball: Hammer Nail, Brunswick True Motion
Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer, Columbia Nitrous
Location: Michigan

Re: Layout advice

Post by EricHartwell » October 27th, 2021, 12:37 am

If it is true that the 16# is indeed .058 Differential, I could not find supporting information,
I would not recommend the Strongest layout unless you want the chance to thump it over the thumb hole on the back end.
Benchmark Layout xx-4.5-35 will be plenty Strong.
Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand

Walkerman10000
Member
Member
Posts: 53
Joined: March 3rd, 2013, 1:56 pm
THS Average: 195
Sport Average: 190
Positive Axis Point: 4 5/8' ---> by 1/4" ^
Speed: 15 mph off my hand
Rev Rate: 330
Axis Tilt: 15
Axis Rotation: 55
Heavy Oil Ball: storm virtual gravity nano
Medium Oil Ball: storm crossroad
Light Oil Ball: 900 global link s30
Preferred Company: Storm and Brunswick
Contact:

Re: Layout advice

Post by Walkerman10000 » October 27th, 2021, 12:47 am

https://www.gbbowlingsupply.com/shop/p/storm-all-road

This site gives the rg and diff for 16, it’s the same has the original hy-road and the hy-road pearl and the hy-road max that’s in the current line up of storm. Once I get the ball in I can verify for sure though
4 5/8” —> x 1/4” ^ PAP
55* rotation
15* tilt
330 rpm’s
15 mph off my hand

Walkerman10000
Member
Member
Posts: 53
Joined: March 3rd, 2013, 1:56 pm
THS Average: 195
Sport Average: 190
Positive Axis Point: 4 5/8' ---> by 1/4" ^
Speed: 15 mph off my hand
Rev Rate: 330
Axis Tilt: 15
Axis Rotation: 55
Heavy Oil Ball: storm virtual gravity nano
Medium Oil Ball: storm crossroad
Light Oil Ball: 900 global link s30
Preferred Company: Storm and Brunswick
Contact:

Re: Layout advice

Post by Walkerman10000 » October 29th, 2021, 4:04 pm

Just got the All Road today and wanted to verify the 2.52 RG with the .058 diff. This is the only line of balls in storm that are vastly different in 15 and 16. This ball is way stronger in 16lbs than the 15lbs balls that majority throw. So with my weight the ball should be much earlier and smoother
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4 5/8” —> x 1/4” ^ PAP
55* rotation
15* tilt
330 rpm’s
15 mph off my hand

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