Layout/Track of Backup Ball

Which layout is right for me?

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JBAOKWE
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Layout/Track of Backup Ball

Post by JBAOKWE » November 13th, 2020, 11:10 am

Hey all, I recently switched my throw to a back-up ball. My regular throw was very low tilt (negative tilt) and my backup ball seems to be just as strange of a throw. My ball tracks like a regular right handed full roller even though I am hooking the ball from left to right like a lefty would throw. I have my ball drilled like a slightly neutral left handed ball as far as pin and psa placement. Any idea why my ball would track this way? And would I do pin to PAP adjustments to adjust motion or would I be better off looking into full roller layouts (lefty or righty)?

I am already getting very good motion with the way its drilled but I want to know how and why it would be tracking like this. I am 400+ revs with 19 mph speed (overall avg speed, ~17.2 on the monitor). I switched last week to back-up so I have not yet figured out axis tilt and rotation.

Here is a picture (sorry it is terrible lol but wanted to show quickly) of how my ball looks on the track and it bowties right under the left hole (middle finger for me). Remember I am throwing it right handed but back up so it should be moving like the motion of a left hander. Any help is appreciated....
Thanks.
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EricHartwell
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Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
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Re: Layout/Track of Backup Ball

Post by EricHartwell » November 15th, 2020, 1:10 am

You didn't mention if your track flares over the gripping holes on the back end.

Knowing your PAP location and your axis tilt would be helpful.

What ball are you using?
How much space between the flare lines?

I am not so sure the right handed full roller layout is going to work. It will position the Pin less than 6-3/4" from your PAP and cause the track to migrate towards the fingers and roll over them on the back end. I am assuming the layout you are using puts the pin more than 6-3/4" from your PAP and is making the ball flare away from the fingers.
Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand

JBAOKWE
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Member
Posts: 10
Joined: March 20th, 2019, 9:15 am
THS Average: 225
Positive Axis Point: 7 1/2 - 1 1/8 ^
Speed: 16.5
Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Conspiracy
Medium Oil Ball: Brunswick Fortera
Light Oil Ball: Motiv Hydra
Preferred Company: TRACK

Re: Layout/Track of Backup Ball

Post by JBAOKWE » November 16th, 2020, 7:31 pm

EricHartwell wrote:
November 15th, 2020, 1:10 am
You didn't mention if your track flares over the gripping holes on the back end.

Knowing your PAP location and your axis tilt would be helpful.

What ball are you using?
How much space between the flare lines?

I am not so sure the right handed full roller layout is going to work. It will position the Pin less than 6-3/4" from your PAP and cause the track to migrate towards the fingers and roll over them on the back end. I am assuming the layout you are using puts the pin more than 6-3/4" from your PAP and is making the ball flare away from the fingers.
Eric, I appreciate the response.
My track is flaring away (down) from the fingers right now. I've used an MVP hybrid symmetric and an older Swerve FX asym and both have the same track. I've used my old equipment that is righty drilled and it had the same track as well, although it was an almost neutral symmetrical ball. It is not extreme flare, the lines stay slightly closer than the (terrible) picture I put above. I am going to practice Thursday and will do my best to get my PAP and tilt/rotation and hopefully some real pictures.

I'm very confused on why my ball would track like a regular right handed full roller. As I said the ball motion is something that I like, I shot 780 and 690 my first two weeks with it in a house I normally struggle at, I just don't understand why it would move as a regular right handed full roller when I throw back-up and I'm not smart enough to figure it out. And then how I would proceed with pin placements to make it do different things, besides just redrilling and experimenting.

Again, I appreciate the help

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EricHartwell
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Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
Speed: 16 off hand
Rev Rate: 330
Axis Tilt: 12
Axis Rotation: 45
Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous
Medium Oil Ball: Motiv Villain, Hammer Nail, Brunswick True Motion
Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer, Columbia Nitrous
Location: Michigan

Re: Layout/Track of Backup Ball

Post by EricHartwell » November 17th, 2020, 1:05 am

As I had mentioned above, it is about the Pin to PAP distance and it being more than 6-3/4" . It makes the ball flare in the opposite direction.
Use a Right handed full roller layout and it will flare up on the fingers because the Pin to PAP distance will be less than 6-3/4".
Low flare set ups like you are using will keep the flare from migrating all the way to the thumb hole.

Once you have found a layout or 2 that don't flare over the gripping holes, for example one low flare and one med flare use the coverstock and surface adjustments to get different ball motions to play different oil patterns.

You have limited options when it comes to layouts unless you want to roll over the gripping holes.
I just watched Tom Smallwood bowl the other day, his unique grip and roll of the ball limits his layouts. Quite often with a ball with decent flare you hear his ball rolling over the thumb as it exits the oil pattern. So what I'm saying is you can be successful with limited options.
Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand

boomer
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Re: Layout/Track of Backup Ball

Post by boomer » November 17th, 2020, 5:32 pm

Hi Eric - wouldn't him throwing it backup mean he should have a lefty drilling?

My wife throws backup and getting her balls drilled lefty (i.e. for what she actually throws as opposed to what the PSO thought she SHOULD be throwing) made a dramatic difference. I wish I had pics of what she had drilled vs what we got drilled, but when we met I took one to a PSO that I trust and told him she is a righty throwing backup and what did he think of the drilling and he said, well, for one thing it's drilled "normal" righty . . . LOL.

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EricHartwell
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Posts: 3666
Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
Speed: 16 off hand
Rev Rate: 330
Axis Tilt: 12
Axis Rotation: 45
Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous
Medium Oil Ball: Motiv Villain, Hammer Nail, Brunswick True Motion
Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer, Columbia Nitrous
Location: Michigan

Re: Layout/Track of Backup Ball

Post by EricHartwell » November 18th, 2020, 12:57 am

boomer wrote:
November 17th, 2020, 5:32 pm
Hi Eric - wouldn't him throwing it backup mean he should have a lefty drilling?

My wife throws backup and getting her balls drilled lefty
The conventional lefty layouts would be a first thought. But, with his initial track basically through the grip center the conventional layout drawn from his PAP will make it roll over fingers.

To properly evaluate this Tilt and PAP location measurements are needed.
Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand

boomer
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Posts: 268
Joined: October 5th, 2012, 3:47 pm
THS Average: 200
Positive Axis Point: 6 3/16 x 1/2 up
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Re: Layout/Track of Backup Ball

Post by boomer » November 18th, 2020, 5:21 pm

ahhhh - thank you. That makes sense.

Cheers

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