New advice for new rules?

Which layout is right for me?

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Bdgf99
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Posts: 133
Joined: June 2nd, 2013, 4:38 pm
THS Average: 207
Positive Axis Point: 5" over, 3/8" up
Speed: 15.5 at Camera
Rev Rate: 300
Axis Tilt: 10
Axis Rotation: 45
Heavy Oil Ball: Jackal Ghost, Golden Jackal
Medium Oil Ball: Tank Blitz, Venom Recoil
Light Oil Ball: Primal Scream
Preferred Company: Motiv
Location: Danville PA

New advice for new rules?

Post by Bdgf99 » August 3rd, 2020, 4:41 pm

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=12810

The previous topic where my layouts are covered from 2014 and 2017.

Because of the new rules, obviously all Mo holes are now plugged. My question is whether I should re-evaluate my arsenal to adapt best to the new rules and such. I have watched Mo's seminar in January 2020 posted on another topic with the new breakdown of layouts (SYM - A/B/C/D and ASYM - A/B/C/D/E) and wondering how this and the rule change have affected my ideal layouts.

My specs from previous 2017 discussion have not changed to my knowledge. I do have the majority of my equipment from 2017 available also. For this discussion, assume all drillings recommended are the same, just the Mo hole is plugged.

New drilled balls include: Jackal Ghost #2, Golden Jackal, Venom Recoil, Tank Blitz
Undrilled new ball: Ripcord Flight

I have lost the following to cracking: Gamebreaker 2 Gold, Mission Unknown, and a Black Widow Limited :|

Look forward to seeing the results again. Thank you!

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EricHartwell
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Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
Speed: 16 off hand
Rev Rate: 330
Axis Tilt: 12
Axis Rotation: 45
Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous
Medium Oil Ball: Motiv Villain, Hammer Nail, Brunswick True Motion
Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer, Columbia Nitrous
Location: Michigan

Re: New advice for new rules?

Post by EricHartwell » August 3rd, 2020, 10:25 pm

Basically all the balls you had with Balance holes will be weaker with the holes plugged. This is assuming the balance hole were installed to strengthen.
I suggest rolling them and see what you get for reactions. I expect lane conditions to change. I saw some change prior to the Covid. It really seemed like there was less oil on the lanes I was bowling on. I have not been allowed to get back on the lanes yet. At this rate I really don't expect to be bowling this coming season.

If you want them to hook earlier use dull surfaces.

If you want them to be more angular use a shinier surface. This also makes them go longer.

The layouts I gave you back in 2017 still apply, I did not recommend balance holes for the Asymmetrical Layouts.

cut and pasted from the 2017 thread...
Totally Strong ....... 2.25:1 Ratio 75* Total ....... 52-4-23
Midlane ............... 1.25:1 Ratio 75* Total ....... 42-4-33
Benchmark .......... 1.75:1 Ratio 95* Total ....... 60-3.5-35
Long and Strong ... 2.25:1 Ratio 115* Total ..... 80-3.5-35
Control ............... 1.25:1 Ratio 115* Total ..... 65-3.5-50
Low flare ............ 2.25:1 Ratio 115* Total ..... 80-2.25-35

Symmetrical balls now have limitations.
Symmetrical Layouts for your specs ...

Benchmark ................ xx-4.25-30
Control .................... xx-4.5-50 adjust to pin in the ring finger
low flare .................. xx-5.25-30
Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand

Bdgf99
Member
Member
Posts: 133
Joined: June 2nd, 2013, 4:38 pm
THS Average: 207
Positive Axis Point: 5" over, 3/8" up
Speed: 15.5 at Camera
Rev Rate: 300
Axis Tilt: 10
Axis Rotation: 45
Heavy Oil Ball: Jackal Ghost, Golden Jackal
Medium Oil Ball: Tank Blitz, Venom Recoil
Light Oil Ball: Primal Scream
Preferred Company: Motiv
Location: Danville PA

Re: New advice for new rules?

Post by Bdgf99 » August 3rd, 2020, 11:30 pm

Eric,
I wish you luck in Michigan, here in PA so far we are tentative to start the season but who knows with everything happening.

I will prob try some surface changes, especially on plugged balls, to try to offset some of the weakness, as I have seen a steadily declining strike percentage over the last two or three seasons. I will also proceed with the arsenal as recommended from 2017 for now, but keeping an eye on the new rules and recommendations from Mo in January's seminar.


Are you going to change the format of your recommendations based on Mo's presentation?

the ABCDE for Asyms:
A Max Flip
B Versatile
C Smooth Motion
D Midlane Hook
E Small Hook

and ABCD for Syms:
A Max Flip
B Versatile
C Smooth Motion
D Small Hook

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EricHartwell
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Posts: 3654
Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
Speed: 16 off hand
Rev Rate: 330
Axis Tilt: 12
Axis Rotation: 45
Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous
Medium Oil Ball: Motiv Villain, Hammer Nail, Brunswick True Motion
Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer, Columbia Nitrous
Location: Michigan

Re: New advice for new rules?

Post by EricHartwell » August 4th, 2020, 4:03 pm

I am sticking with the Dual Angles and customizing to an individuals release specs.

Here is my take on Mo's simplified layouts...
He is trying to teach ball drillers an easier way to figure out layouts. The Dual Angle method was found to be too complicated.
Also the simplified layouts keep the pin away from the fingers to try and keep the balls from cracking. Ball manufacturers don't want the cost to replace/repair balls under warrentee. If I want a pin too close to a finger hole I will tell the driller I will sign off on the warrentee drill it anyway.

I came to this site because I was tired of drillers Not giving me what I asked for and having an arsenal that was not tuned to my release.
Will the simplified layouts help the sub-par drillers get closer? Maybe. They still will not be able to organize an arsenal. imho
Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand

Bdgf99
Member
Member
Posts: 133
Joined: June 2nd, 2013, 4:38 pm
THS Average: 207
Positive Axis Point: 5" over, 3/8" up
Speed: 15.5 at Camera
Rev Rate: 300
Axis Tilt: 10
Axis Rotation: 45
Heavy Oil Ball: Jackal Ghost, Golden Jackal
Medium Oil Ball: Tank Blitz, Venom Recoil
Light Oil Ball: Primal Scream
Preferred Company: Motiv
Location: Danville PA

Re: New advice for new rules?

Post by Bdgf99 » September 13th, 2020, 4:55 pm

EricHartwell wrote:
August 3rd, 2020, 10:25 pm
Basically all the balls you had with Balance holes will be weaker with the holes plugged. This is assuming the balance hole were installed to strengthen.
I suggest rolling them and see what you get for reactions. I expect lane conditions to change. I saw some change prior to the Covid. It really seemed like there was less oil on the lanes I was bowling on. I have not been allowed to get back on the lanes yet. At this rate I really don't expect to be bowling this coming season.

If you want them to hook earlier use dull surfaces.

If you want them to be more angular use a shinier surface. This also makes them go longer.

The layouts I gave you back in 2017 still apply, I did not recommend balance holes for the Asymmetrical Layouts.

cut and pasted from the 2017 thread...
Totally Strong ....... 2.25:1 Ratio 75* Total ....... 52-4-23
Midlane ............... 1.25:1 Ratio 75* Total ....... 42-4-33
Benchmark .......... 1.75:1 Ratio 95* Total ....... 60-3.5-35
Long and Strong ... 2.25:1 Ratio 115* Total ..... 80-3.5-35
Control ............... 1.25:1 Ratio 115* Total ..... 65-3.5-50
Low flare ............ 2.25:1 Ratio 115* Total ..... 80-2.25-35

Symmetrical balls now have limitations.
Symmetrical Layouts for your specs ...

Benchmark ................ xx-4.25-30
Control .................... xx-4.5-50 adjust to pin in the ring finger
low flare .................. xx-5.25-30
Eric
How about the Sport Shot layouts? All three have balance holes.
Red Legend for Short
Covert Revolt for Medium
Jackal ghost for Long (30x5x35, P3)

User avatar
EricHartwell
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Trusted Source
Posts: 3654
Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
Speed: 16 off hand
Rev Rate: 330
Axis Tilt: 12
Axis Rotation: 45
Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous
Medium Oil Ball: Motiv Villain, Hammer Nail, Brunswick True Motion
Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer, Columbia Nitrous
Location: Michigan

Re: New advice for new rules?

Post by EricHartwell » September 14th, 2020, 11:13 pm

They are going to be weaker with the holes plugged.
i am not saying that they won't be usable but you will need to adjust to get them to roll as good.
Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand

Bdgf99
Member
Member
Posts: 133
Joined: June 2nd, 2013, 4:38 pm
THS Average: 207
Positive Axis Point: 5" over, 3/8" up
Speed: 15.5 at Camera
Rev Rate: 300
Axis Tilt: 10
Axis Rotation: 45
Heavy Oil Ball: Jackal Ghost, Golden Jackal
Medium Oil Ball: Tank Blitz, Venom Recoil
Light Oil Ball: Primal Scream
Preferred Company: Motiv
Location: Danville PA

Re: New advice for new rules?

Post by Bdgf99 » September 19th, 2020, 12:46 am

Thank you Eric, I plugged the Revolt for now, no layout change.
The Jackal Ghost had to be redrilled to replace my Trident, which cracked :(
Red Legend I plugged the hole only for now.

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