Over Rolled Full Roller?

Which layout is right for me?

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lpc300
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Over Rolled Full Roller?

Post by lpc300 » February 7th, 2020, 10:52 am

Kid who I coach and for whom I drill has an odd track that I haven't seen before. Might be an over rolled full roller. He's a righty who tracks the ball between the fingers (sometimes over the ring finger) and to the RIGHT of the Thumb. His PAP is 5 5/8 over and 3/16 up. Axis tilt is O, though it might actually be negative. Throws the ball hard (18+ MPH). Fairly high axis of rotation. He gets very little hook, and the hook he does get is more of an arc than a snap. He used to be a very high track player, but with a more standard high track (just left of the fingers and thumb). He's good... averages around 200 and has 3 300's (one this past Monday). Often he has very poor carry, with quite a few pocket splits (8-10s, 5-7s, and even a 5-7-10 here and there if he gets into the 19/20 MPH range). Getting him to slow down his speed has helped a little, but when it comes to layouts, I'm debating as to the direction. One one hand, I am considering a full roller layout. On the other, I am thinking about changing his pitches with a performance fit to move his track.

Any suggestions?

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EricHartwell
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Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
Speed: 16 off hand
Rev Rate: 330
Axis Tilt: 12
Axis Rotation: 45
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Re: Over Rolled Full Roller?

Post by EricHartwell » February 8th, 2020, 1:25 am

Fuller roller layout is Not the answer. It will make the track roll over the finger holes rather than the thumb hole as I am sure he does with conventional layouts.
If his PAP is measure correctly he has at least 25* of Negative tilt to get the track as you describe. see attachment
His release really needs to change. Layouts are only going to get him to track off the holes not help his ball reaction.
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Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand

TonyPR
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Re: Over Rolled Full Roller?

Post by TonyPR » March 15th, 2020, 9:59 am

We need to get him to release earlier, he is releasing too much in front. Do some release drills with foot 1-3” behind the line and have him try to roll the ball by his slide shoe heel trying to land the ball behind the foul line. He most likely will not be able to land the ball behind the foul line, the point of this exercise is not to do this as we want the ball to be over the foul line in actual play, but it will teach him to start his release earlier.

Take side video of him and make sure he isn’t sliding a mile from the foul line, the closer the better (up to 1-3”).

Fitting thumb in stretching web at 3 out of 10 tension, full span at midpoint between creases, use 0” thumb linear for 4 1/2” full span and 1/16 more or less thumb linear for every 1/8 change in full span from the 4 1/2 to zero thumb linear relation. Zero thumb lateral but get the oval, taper and bevel correct. 3/4 reverse on both fingers and 7/16, 7/16 laterals. Adjust finger laterals for crooked fingers.

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Re: Over Rolled Full Roller?

Post by TomaHawk » March 23rd, 2020, 5:17 pm

Also, check his foot alignment at the foul line. If the slide foot is almost parallel to the foul line (sideways, not pointed in the vicinity of his intended target), that's at least half the problem. The issue with improper foot alignment can lead to the shoulders being in the wrong position at the point of release, which in turn leads to hand being in an over roll position at the point of release.

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kajmk
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Re: Over Rolled Full Roller?

Post by kajmk » March 23rd, 2020, 6:02 pm

The fable of the 6 blind men and the elephant is apropos.


A video would be a diagnostic bonus!

http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index. ... e_Coaching

Very good skills drills from Kegel

http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index. ... ence_video

As mentioned by others, it sounds like there are issues of technique and execution afoot. Leaping from that last word, analysis of footwork is a good place to start.
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