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 Post subject: hustle ink layout for short oil low volume dry
 Posted: Thu May 09, 2019 2:31 am Post Number: #1 Post
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right, pap 4 1/2 over 1/2 up. AT 10 AR 50, 18 mph off hand, 325-350 rpm.

Trying to keep target line straighter. Bad habits kick in when trying to swing the lane.

I basically understand the dual angle layout system.

I understand pin to pap distance in relation to hook. longer equals sharper angle ie hockey stick. short pin to pap smoother.

With that said my pso discusses layouts in the form of clock face. I E my roto grip show off dual angle is 60x5x40, his comment is 1 oclock slight cg kick to right psa/bias slightly right of thumb.

How or what layout would be good for INK in term of dual angle and converted to clock face so I/we can understand each other. Basically long, control /arch, no skid flip. i can change surface no problem.

My marvel pearl is not long enough at 70x5x30 at 1k,3k,5k ufo extender.

Thank you for your time CW

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right, pap 4 1/2 over 1/2 up. AT 10 AR 50, 18 mph off hand, 325-350 rpm


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 Post subject: Re: hustle ink layout for short oil low volume dry
 Posted: Thu May 09, 2019 4:09 pm Post Number: #2 Post
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Decide what layout you want, then ask the driller to let you lay the ball out. -- JohnP


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 Post subject: Re: hustle ink layout for short oil low volume dry
 Posted: Thu May 09, 2019 4:51 pm Post Number: #3 Post
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Thanks John think I'll do that. I am thinking, based on dual angle of course, around

80x 2.250x40. these are higher friction conditions or dirt as others call it. not ths,

shorter than 40ft probably 36 to 38. not high volume heads.

i find that on these patters that the 4.5 to 5 inch get to jumpy at times. so gonna try a lower pin with higher sums. 2.1 or less ratio.

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right, pap 4 1/2 over 1/2 up. AT 10 AR 50, 18 mph off hand, 325-350 rpm


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 Post subject: Re: hustle ink layout for short oil low volume dry
 Posted: Fri May 10, 2019 6:44 am Post Number: #4 Post
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cw90stratos wrote:
right, pap 4 1/2 over 1/2 up. AT 10 AR 50, 18 mph off hand, 325-350 rpm.

Trying to keep target line straighter. Bad habits kick in when trying to swing the lane.

I basically understand the dual angle layout system.

I understand pin to pap distance in relation to hook. longer equals sharper angle ie hockey stick. short pin to pap smoother. (This is only for a symmetrical ball)

With that said my pso discusses layouts in the form of clock face. I E my roto grip show off dual angle is 60x5x40, his comment is 1 oclock slight cg kick to right psa/bias slightly right of thumb.The Show Off is symmetrical so did you get the Drilling Angle measuring through the thumb-hole (or did you measure through the CG?) Remember, you take what you get for a Drilling Angle (without a balance hole) on a symmetrical ball?

How or what layout would be good for INK in term of dual angle and converted to clock face so I/we can understand each other. Basically long, control /arch, no skid flip. i can change surface no problem.
The Hustle Ink is symmetrical also; therefore, you cannot increase the Drilling Angle without a balance hole on the track side of the thumb-hole. You have 2 different Drilling Angles listed,(A 60* on the Show Off and a 70* on Marvel Pearl. If both balls are symmetrical with the same Pin to PAP distance and the same VAL Angle, the Drilling Angle would be identical so you are probably measuring through the CG.) You will have the same amount of control over the Drilling Angle on the INK.

My marvel pearl is not long enough at 70x5x30 at 1k,3k,5k ufo extender. Drilling Angle measured through the CG or the Thumb-hole?

Thank you for your time CW


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 Post subject: Re: hustle ink layout for short oil low volume dry
 Posted: Fri May 10, 2019 8:09 am Post Number: #5 Post
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Pin-down layouts usually result in smooth back-end motion.
Flare-safety is an issue with these layouts, so check to be sure the track is not too close to the middle finger. 2-3" to the left is probably safe, but for high-trackers within an inch of the hole, place the pin in one of the finger holes and the CG at or near the center of grip.

Symm layouts do not use drilling angles, but you can clarify the location of the true pin-to-spin line by placing the thumbhole, CG and PIN in alignment.
ie: use the thumbhole as the "mass-bias".

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 Post subject: Re: hustle ink layout for short oil low volume dry
 Posted: Fri May 10, 2019 2:20 pm Post Number: #6 Post
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Sorry for delay reply fell asleep.

Yes, all are symmetrical. The layouts are done by the prior pso. I watched him layout the show off and the marvel. 6 7/8" Line from pin thru cg. no balance holes.

the new guy just took over, though he was the pso at another alley that just shut down.

elgavachon: yes both same pin to pap dist. guess he was using cover to make the difference. There is some difference in reaction but not much. just a little longer and a little sharper. Dang didn't notice that. I was still learning last year. but now I know.

I just learned the Drill angle don't really matter as much as the pin to pap and the val angle.

Marvel pearl pin to cg is 4.5", show off pin to cg is 3".

snick: yes I track high, use to be higher than this. 1st oil line is 1" from finger a 1 1/8 from thumb. I'll look into drilling out the pin.

The ink is going to be basically drier condition specific as stated. The marvel is the closest I've come to getting for that drier shot but not quite there.

Every symmetric ball ive had has been 4.5 to 5.0" ptp. Never bowled good in tourney with them. THS is fine. the weakest I tried, before knowing it was wrong, was the cyclone. its not weak as i was hoping. That is why trying some thing diff.

Btw urethane was not good either nuff said. new blue hammer is a good spare ball though.

thanks again cw

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 Post subject: Re: hustle ink layout for short oil low volume dry
 Posted: Fri May 10, 2019 7:46 pm Post Number: #7 Post
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Thanks to the ball track and flare explained pdf on this site, used as a guide for layouts listed below final layout subj to change.

I finally see why I did not get what i thought i was getting, on relying on the first

pso recommendation. and yes basically got the same layout on both the marvel and show off.

Also see why my previous 3 balls by another shop basic were not good either.

So now with new info learned I narrowed down 3 layouts by ptop distance and val angle. Pending on pin to cg from supplier and how the holes are drawn no bal hole either.

1) 50 deg val with 5 5/8" ptp 2) 30 deg val 2 1/4" ptp 3) 40 deg val 2" ptp this is for the hustle ink. These are a full 1 to 1.5" lower flare than the marvel. Suggestions welcome.

And for the dual angle total sum, if it matters to anyone, my bench should have been 110. Both pro shops put me at 90 and 100. I feel now that is 20 to 30 total sums below what was needed for drier lanes. every ball had 4 to 5" ptp val 30 to 40 range.

Thanks to everyone for their help.

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right, pap 4 1/2 over 1/2 up. AT 10 AR 50, 18 mph off hand, 325-350 rpm


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 Post subject: Re: hustle ink layout for short oil low volume dry
 Posted: Tue May 14, 2019 12:19 am Post Number: #8 Post
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though not a hustle ink, but pin to pap and val angle is interesting. replies welcome

short story, found my old columbia full throttle. RG 2.513 dif .050 sym. bought

and drilled for drier house in new orleans. did not use much there due to retiring.

moved to new location. that ball went 55' at the current juiced up house. But was

usable and shot well at another local drier house on a saturday of all things. then

quit bowling for a long time. Never used it in a tourney. fast forward to today

thinking bout what to do with the hustle ink. i Pulled the throttle out just "roughly"

checking with tape and eyeballing, it's close to a 2.5" ptp @ roughly 60 deg val.

no bal holes Think it would be a good 1 marvel pearl 2 hustle ink 3 full throttle

tourney set up. the roto grip show off 5" ptp x 40 val is useless in the drier houses.

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right, pap 4 1/2 over 1/2 up. AT 10 AR 50, 18 mph off hand, 325-350 rpm


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 Post subject: Re: hustle ink layout for short oil low volume dry
 Posted: Thu May 16, 2019 2:08 am Post Number: #9 Post
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bought the hustle ink, pin to cg 3.5". around 2.4 oz top weight. still have not got it drilled, on going saga sorry. Replies and thoughts are welcome I'm still learning.

so pulled out the symmetrical columbia full throttle made 2002 ish. 2.5" ptp. pin even with ring finger, just barely to the right. cg in the center of grip, 2 1/4" pin to cg. half arse fixed span issue. resurfaced to 2000. for testing purposes.

went to the dry house tonight. open play, no reoil. could not see the oil lines in the heads. lay down 30, arrows around 13, break around 40 ish ft 5 board. crushed em for 255. no warm up. second game basically end over end on 4 board 229.

this ball didnt jump in the dry. it was more like a controlled angular back end with continuation from the inside line. hook set roll thru pins with 0 deflection on the outside. crazy the only word I can think of.

Now Im lost on what to do with the ink after this test. 4 and 5" pins are not looking so good any more after this. the full throttle is the only ball i've ever had with a p2p less than 4".

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right, pap 4 1/2 over 1/2 up. AT 10 AR 50, 18 mph off hand, 325-350 rpm


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 Post subject: Re: hustle ink layout for short oil low volume dry
 Posted: Thu May 16, 2019 9:15 am Post Number: #10 Post
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I would never make a ball decision over open play conditions. But, I think Eric has said that 4-5 will let you play the lanes front to back and the shorter pin is for side to side play.

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 Post subject: Re: hustle ink layout for short oil low volume dry
 Posted: Fri May 17, 2019 1:01 am Post Number: #11 Post
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The Hustle Ink is a low differential ball, a weaker core than everything else you have mentioned.
Utilizing similar layouts will automatically, because of the lower flare, skid longer and hook less.

You had mentioned that your Marvel Pearl is too early ...
cw90stratos wrote:
My marvel pearl is not long enough at 70x5x30 at 1k,3k,5k ufo extender.

The drilling angle to the thumb is indeed 70*
You may have to shine the Hustle Ink up like this.

I would suggest a Control layout, 80-4.25-50 for the Hustle Ink. Pin in the ring finger.
This will be tunable by drilling the ring finger deeper to reduce the reaction or drill the thumb deeper to strengthen the reaction.
44boyd wrote:
I would never make a ball decision over open play conditions. But, I think Eric has said that 4-5 will let you play the lanes front to back and the shorter pin is for side to side play.

This is for Asymmetrical balls and it is more like 4.5 to 5.5 for more forward rolling and 3 to 4 for side to side motion.

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 Post subject: Re: hustle ink layout for short oil low volume dry
 Posted: Fri May 17, 2019 1:57 am Post Number: #12 Post
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My bad, thanks for correcting me.

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 Post subject: Re: hustle ink layout for short oil low volume dry
 Posted: Fri May 17, 2019 4:00 pm Post Number: #13 Post
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Thank you, as far as open play goes, those dry conditions is what I have basically see at every tourney.move left your in the crankers burnt area. Fresh oil or not.

Erik I think you are correct bout Higher sums, get the ball down lane big val angle to extend hook zone and control/not jump when it sniffs dry. I like the idea of adjusting hole depth as you said. I will have a turbo switch thumb. Any layout adjust for this?

I think I see the trend now. According to charts and my ball reaction.

Forgive me if this is not correct terminology but this is what I see happening. Is

mostly the val and pins are not correct for me especially "val" 40 degrees or less. only one is the throttle I believe its 50 ish.

If you will bare with me. for symmetrical ball only pins close to the 4 to 5" range

I'm going to call it flare increasing down lane. Ball still flares in the heads, as ball

progresses down lane"usually" gets drier correct. So this pin range is more flaring

in the dry where the lane is already dry does not seem to be good. Possibly

causing adding the ball hooking/reading too early. Larger val might reduce this.

My Pso was telling me as he was fixing the throttle, based on pin location, what hand i put in is what ball will do. He was right, hand position dictated reaction accordingly. Best I ever seen. btw playout was playing 10 to 4 with less hand. Still had stupid good reaction as did in the inside.

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right, pap 4 1/2 over 1/2 up. AT 10 AR 50, 18 mph off hand, 325-350 rpm


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 Post subject: Re: hustle ink layout for short oil low volume dry
 Posted: Sat May 18, 2019 12:21 am Post Number: #14 Post
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In short, flare reducing layout on high diff ball or lower diff ball needs some pin length to help on late midlane.

What pso's always gave me in the past was a high and increasing flare layout on every ball i bought till now. Thanks to this website and current pso that will never happen again.

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right, pap 4 1/2 over 1/2 up. AT 10 AR 50, 18 mph off hand, 325-350 rpm


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