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 Post subject: Re: thumbless bowler ideas
 Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 2:07 pm Post Number: #81 Post
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EricHartwell wrote:


Sweetspot 100*, 2.4:1 Ratio

Asymmetrical layouts
Totally Strong ................. 60-4-25
Midlane ......................... 50-3.5-30
Benchmark ..................... 70-3-30
Long and Strong .............. 90-3-30
Control ........................... 75-3-50
low flare ......................... 90-2-30

Symmetrical Layouts

Benchmark ..................... xx-4.5-25
Control ........................... xx-4.5-45
low flare (high Rg)............ xx-5.5-30 fingers normal depth
low flare (low Rg)............. xx-2-30 fingers 3.5" to 4" deep


All the layouts on your ball(s) are off. You can take them to your PSO and use your new PAP to see what those numbers turn out to be. If you want to plug and redrill, here is Eric’s recommendation for you. Choose the ball and put the layout on that corresponds with the desired reaction. Just so it’s not assumed, do you understand what Benchmark, Long and Strong, Control etc.. mean for ball reaction?

Since you can’t post pictures, I’d take a video of your layouts for Eric to look at to see what you have them at.

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 Post subject: Re: thumbless bowler ideas
 Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 4:59 pm Post Number: #82 Post
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he said he had to go do edits om there and didnt kmow if he did or not


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 Post subject: Re: thumbless bowler ideas
 Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:02 pm Post Number: #83 Post
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and what do the xx meam for the firdt number on the sym lauouts


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 Post subject: Re: thumbless bowler ideas
 Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:04 pm Post Number: #84 Post
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On symmetric the first number doesn’t effect ball motion, so put it wherever you like.

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 Post subject: Re: thumbless bowler ideas
 Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:48 pm Post Number: #85 Post
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oh i always thought the first number was how long you want the ball to go


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 Post subject: Re: thumbless bowler ideas
 Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:52 pm Post Number: #86 Post
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and my other question is what is the advantages of symetric vs aysm?


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 Post subject: Re: thumbless bowler ideas
 Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:25 pm Post Number: #87 Post
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You’re correct, but with new rules it doesn’t matter on symmetrical. Asymmetrical react quicker to friction, so symmetrical is a smoother version of a skid/snap, continuous or traction designed ball.

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 Post subject: Re: thumbless bowler ideas
 Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 12:55 am Post Number: #88 Post
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spencer6392 wrote:
he said he had to go do edits om there and didnt kmow if he did or not

I deleted my post that had layouts for the Tenacity and the Kinetic. The list of layouts I can up with is unedited and ready to apply to your list of balls.

Method ................... Benchmark ........... xx-4-30
Tenacity .................. Long and Strong .... 90-3-30
Track Ultra Heat ....... Control ................. xx-4.5-45
.035 pearl ................ Skid Snap ............ xx-3.5-30
Kinetic Amethyst ...... low flare ............. 90-2.5-30 Drill the finger deep, hit the core with them.
btu pearl ................. Control ............... xx-4-45

If you want the Ultra heat to be stronger than the Pearls you need to keep a dull/matte surface on it.

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PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand


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 Post subject: Re: thumbless bowler ideas
 Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:05 am Post Number: #89 Post
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so im just wondering if the tenacity seems to be the go to bench mark right now and when lined up right it carrys for days what am i sacrafising having the ball drilled at 75x5.5 x 20 vs drilling it 75*3*20 vs 90*3*20


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 Post subject: Re: thumbless bowler ideas
 Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:26 am Post Number: #90 Post
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and i shoukd say thar the purple kinetic will be replacing my 035 pearl


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 Post subject: Re: thumbless bowler ideas
 Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 5:32 pm Post Number: #91 Post
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spencer6392 wrote:
so an updare drilled tge tanancity 75*5*20 and it gives semi length with tones of hook but i needs alot of oil signs of reading early hitting brooklyn burning up epecialy once i got outta game one but again this was bowling on a burnt up 5 person leauge the night before. i threw my pin down motive revokt vengeance and it rolled over overthibg but still gave me better look better continuation and cleaner through the lane my question is should i try the tenacity on fresh oil or should i go right into sanding it 500/1000/2000 then replolish

So is this statement from 7 days ago invalid? If you leave it as is, it’ll read sooner and burn up quicker than the recommendation layout. Remember Eric gave you layouts so you have an arsenal, not a bunch of balls that are for the same condition. So leaving it is like a super strong layout instead of a Benchmark where you read the lane and go up or down from there.

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 Post subject: Re: thumbless bowler ideas
 Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 5:51 pm Post Number: #92 Post
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that was an old post but i did drill my tenacity thar way but my question was what was the difference of 70*5*20 vs 70*3*20 vd 90*3*20 how much more legth would the 90 give me instaid of 90 and how much would chaning pin to pap of 5 to 3 do


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 Post subject: Re: thumbless bowler ideas
 Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 6:15 pm Post Number: #93 Post
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How many times do you need to be told 5 inch pin burns off tilt earlier? Your layouts in question aren’t in line with anyone’s recommendation and has already been explained.

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 Post subject: Re: thumbless bowler ideas
 Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 11:25 pm Post Number: #94 Post
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spencer6392 wrote:
so im just wondering if the tenacity seems to be the go to bench mark right now and when lined up right it carrys for days what am i sacrafising having the ball drilled at 75x5.5 x 20 vs drilling it 75*3*20 vs 90*3*20

You are sacrificing continuation through the pocket.

And why are you stuck on the 20* VAL angle?
Do you really like over under reactions?

Tuned layouts with proper pin to PAPs are going to make it easier to to get lined up and have margin for error.

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PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand


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 Post subject: Re: thumbless bowler ideas
 Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 2:48 am Post Number: #95 Post
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Eric, one can take the camel to the oasis but one cannot make the camel drink the water, don’t waste your time.

Spencer, Eric is really good at what he does and if the release specs you provided are accurate his layout recommendations are spot on. If you choose to learn more about the why’s my advice is to check out the BCU course up on the top of the page, the contents is free, you only pay for the exam and you don’t really need to take it.

The other good source to learn about layouts is this podcast series:

http://above180.com/category/ball-drill ... es-series/

Start on part one and don’t go on to part two until you understand part one and so on. This podcast taught me a lot. Enjoy.


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 Post subject: Re: thumbless bowler ideas
 Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 5:52 pm Post Number: #96 Post
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spencer6392 wrote:
that was an old post but i did drill my tenacity thar way but my question was what was the difference of 70*5*20 vs 70*3*20 vd 90*3*20 how much more legth would the 90 give me instaid of 90 and how much would chaning pin to pap of 5 to 3 do

Realize that this Pin to PAP recommendation is for Asymmetrical balls. It will be night and day and you will wonder why you would ever want a long pin to PAP. There is a place for them but your game is far from being able to utilize it.

Length difference between 70* and 90* Drilling angles.
It is difficult to say because there are too many variables. It will be noticeable. My arsenal recommendations are set up with the 20* steps.
I have found that the 20* step in angles gives enough separation in the ball reactions to be seen with the naked eye. Especially in a side by side comparison. Trying one ball one night then coming back the next day or week trying another is not comparing apples to apples.

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Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand


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