Low flare layouts - short pin vs. long pin

Which layout is right for me?

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Mongo
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Low flare layouts - short pin vs. long pin

Post by Mongo »

I've seen some videos on low flare layouts on bigger cores/balls that look pretty good, so I figured I'd play with it.

I put a 110 x 2 x 55 on a Swerve GT and it definitely killed the flare, but pretty much killed the reaction, too. I had it at 3000 and it was super smooth throughout, but really had nothing downlane. I loved the amount of total hook, but I figured it would have a little more pop at the end.

Even with a 110 DA, it seemed like it burned up. I am either going to take it to 4000 or *gasp* throw a light shine on it. The goal is to have something a step up from the RA Solid, but with a similar motion.

Now that I talked a bunch, here is my question -

Assuming 3 3/8" from pin to PAP is the max flare spot and if you keep the DA and VAL the same, how does the reaction change if you move pin closer to PAP vs. farther away?

See examples below (1 1/2" pin to PAP and 5 1/4" pin to PAP). (I think my math is correct in being equidistant from max flare point (3 3/8"))

Image

Image

Will these react differently? If so, how?
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Re: Low flare layouts - short pin vs. long pin

Post by 44boyd »

I think they’d both be turds unless you have like 0 tilt and 600 revs, both angles are too large for a low flare to me. You have a super long skid phase with a long hook phase. Ball is probably not revving up.
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Re: Low flare layouts - short pin vs. long pin

Post by fufu »

The MB strength is so weak it’s basically a symmetrical cores ball. Think you’d see a later motion but neither layout would have any “pop” on the backend.
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Re: Low flare layouts - short pin vs. long pin

Post by todvan »

Is there a low flare layout guide based on your release stats? Keep the sum of angles close to your benchmark sum? If I have a bit higher tilt and rotation, should the pin to pap be adjusted from 2 1/4 inches? Eric? Thanks!
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Re: Low flare layouts - short pin vs. long pin

Post by Mongo »

Appreciate the feedback, but you're kind of missing the point.

This is a condition specific drill allowing you have a bigger ball in your hand on drier/sport conditions where you want to be more direct, but would like a bigger core in your hand to help with carry.

Here's a video comparing using various urethane balls and a Guru Supreme with a low flare layout to illustrate my point

[youtube][/youtube]


....but getting back to my main question.....

Is there a difference in reaction to a longer pin to PAP vs. a shorter one if drill and VAL angles are the same?
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Re: Low flare layouts - short pin vs. long pin

Post by 44boyd »

Oh we totally understand what you’re getting at. The shorter pin to pap will transition the ball quicker than the longer one. What “we’re” getting at, is unless you’re Gary Faulkner in the video then those totals are way high.
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Re: Low flare layouts - short pin vs. long pin

Post by Mongo »

44boyd wrote:Oh we totally understand what you’re getting at. The shorter pin to pap will transition the ball quicker than the longer one. What “we’re” getting at, is unless you’re Gary Faulkner in the video then those totals are way high.
I could see this being useful on old wood and shots like the USBC team shot if you are trying to keep your angles tight and control the backend.

Thx.
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Re: Low flare layouts - short pin vs. long pin

Post by EricHartwell »

todvan wrote:Is there a low flare layout guide based on your release stats? Keep the sum of angles close to your benchmark sum? If I have a bit higher tilt and rotation, should the pin to pap be adjusted from 2 1/4 inches? Eric? Thanks!
I recommend the Long and Strong Totals and Ratio with the low flaring pin to PAP.
Higher tilt/rotation bowlers will find the low flare on an Asym less usable requiring more ball surface or friction from the lanes.
The Pin to PAP distance adjustment from 2 1/4" will depend on several factors and should be evaluated case by case.

The low flare layout creates a flare pattern on the ball that overlaps, thus reducing friction.
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Re: Low flare layouts - short pin vs. long pin

Post by Mongo »

EricHartwell wrote:
I recommend the Long and Strong Totals and Ratio with the low flaring pin to PAP.

As I said above, I'm playing with ways to try layouts that allow me to use stronger equipment instead of weaker cores/covers. I really dislike the reaction I get from urethane, but there are times I need that motion. If I can replicate it with a low flare layout, I'd like to try it.

Higher tilt/rotation bowlers will find the low flare on an Asym less usable requiring more ball surface or friction from the lanes.

I can verify this. The Swerve GT I tried this on can go right up the dirt on a house shot at 3000. I realize this isn't on the top end of asyms, but it's definitely more ball that what I've able to throw out there.


The Pin to PAP distance adjustment from 2 1/4" will depend on several factors and should be evaluated case by case.

The low flare layout creates a flare pattern on the ball that overlaps, thus reducing friction.

Yes, yes it does.
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JMerrell wrote:Mongo,
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