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 Post subject: 40 tilt 70 rot Track Cyborg & Radical Cash layouts
 Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 5:00 pm Post Number: #1 Post
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Hi!
I have not drilled many Track balls before and the bowlers has challenging specs.
Track Cyborg
--> http://www.trackbowling.com/products/balls/upper-mid-performance/cyborg
--> Link to bowlers specs
--> Couble videos taken few months back when throwing guru master 45/3/50

In the second link you find the image that has the layout that I have been planning on.
Bowlers specs are 40 tilt , 70 rotation, 17mph offhand, 235 rpm.
The lanes he bowls on are New Brunswick Pro lanes.
He wants this ball for fresh easy THS.

Im thinking 25/5,25/60 and P3-P4 if necessary

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Janne Palo
ProShop Operator / Bowling Center Staff
Squash & Bowling Center Seinäjoki, Finland
ETBF level 1 ProShop Driller / Manager
Stats:
PAP 6 over 1/16 down
17 mph
425 rpm
Rotation 75
Tilt 7 dg


Last edited by jannepalo on Sat Nov 25, 2017 7:53 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 40 tilt 70 rot Track Cyborg layout
 Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 2:46 am Post Number: #2 Post
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.007 mass bias rating is basically a Symmetrical.
You will most Definitely want a P4 balance hole equal to or larger than the thumb hole.
Without a balance hole it will be a low flare symmetrical layout ~80-5.25-62,5

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PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand


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 Post subject: Re: 40 tilt 70 rot Track Cyborg layout
 Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 7:24 pm Post Number: #3 Post
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jannepalo wrote:
Hi!
I have not drilled many Track balls before and the bowlers has challenging specs.
Track Cyborg
--> http://www.trackbowling.com/products/balls/upper-mid-performance/cyborg
--> Link to bowlers specs
--> Couble videos taken few months back when throwing guru master 45/3/50

In the second link you find the image that has the layout that I have been planning on.
Bowlers specs are 40 tilt , 70 rotation, 17mph offhand, 235 rpm.
The lanes he bowls on are New Brunswick Pro lanes.
He wants this ball for fresh easy THS.

Im thinking 25/5,25/60 and P3-P4 if necessary

Sounds like a perfect candidate for a double thumb layout. The ball has good specs for it too.

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 Post subject: Re: 40 tilt 70 rot Track Cyborg layout
 Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 11:25 pm Post Number: #4 Post
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Arkansas wrote:
Sounds like a perfect candidate for a double thumb layout. The ball has good specs for it too.

Unfortunately the Cg is at least 1" left of the line from Pin to Mass Bias.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B18M6xxRoG8_bDhyX3V2UlRrTlk/view

With the short horizontal PAP component the base layout for the Double Thumb layout will put the Cg left of grip center. Also the request is for an easy THS shot, the Double Thumb layout will be way too strong imo.

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Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand


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 Post subject: Re: 40 tilt 70 rot Track Cyborg layout
 Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 11:34 pm Post Number: #5 Post
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Here is a topic on Modified Double Thumb layouts.
http://forum.bowlingchat.net/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=9320&hilit

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PAP 3 3/4"
(* rebuilding)

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 Post subject: Re: 40 tilt 70 rot Track Cyborg layout
 Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 11:55 pm Post Number: #6 Post
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Modified Double Thumb layout for this bowler would be ~30-4-30 P4

Cut and pasted from Track's website...
Our new QR-7 Hybrid cover has a lot of familiarities in chemical composition with our QR-9 covers used on the highly successful Paradox line. This cover is perfect for those looking for strong overall hooking power on medium to heavy oil patterns.

I think jannepalo has it right with the 25-5.25-62,5 for the itended use on an easy house shot. But to make it work a P4 balance hole will be needed to create the Asymmetry needed to be a successful layout.

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Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand


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 Post subject: Re: 40 tilt 70 rot Track Cyborg layout
 Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:18 pm Post Number: #7 Post
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We went with the layout I was thinking and the ball was nice after adding little surface. He still uses the ball on ths.
Now he needs a ball for league that would work in heavy oil. I have been thinking Radical Fix with 35/3,75/30.

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Janne Palo
ProShop Operator / Bowling Center Staff
Squash & Bowling Center Seinäjoki, Finland
ETBF level 1 ProShop Driller / Manager
Stats:
PAP 6 over 1/16 down
17 mph
425 rpm
Rotation 75
Tilt 7 dg


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 Post subject: Re: 40 tilt 70 rot Track Cyborg layout
 Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:25 pm Post Number: #8 Post
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jannepalo wrote:
We went with the layout I was thinking and the ball was nice after adding little surface. He still uses the ball on ths.
Now he needs a ball for league that would work in heavy oil. I have been thinking Radical Fix with 35/3,75/30.

You are going to need a VERY long pin to Cg. Close to 5"
You will also want less than 3 oz top weight.

If the ball specs are not optimum I would consider (drilling angle to Cg)50-3-50 balance hole 2" below midline on the VAL.
This is a pin the the ring finger layout.

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Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand


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 Post subject: Re: 40 tilt 70 rot Track Cyborg & Radical Fix layouts
 Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 4:28 am Post Number: #9 Post
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I really would like to go with something stronger. What would be the current -go to- ball in Brunswick/DV8/Radical line for high tilt bowler?

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Janne Palo
ProShop Operator / Bowling Center Staff
Squash & Bowling Center Seinäjoki, Finland
ETBF level 1 ProShop Driller / Manager
Stats:
PAP 6 over 1/16 down
17 mph
425 rpm
Rotation 75
Tilt 7 dg


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 Post subject: Re: 40 tilt 70 rot Track Cyborg & Radical Fix layouts
 Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:01 am Post Number: #10 Post
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jannepalo wrote:
I really would like to go with something stronger. What would be the current -go to- ball in Brunswick/DV8/Radical line for high tilt bowler?


Look for balls with High INT Diff to transition the ball faster.
Stronger covers help too.

Cash, More Cash, Katana

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 Post subject: Re: 40 tilt 70 rot Track Cyborg & Radical Fix layouts
 Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 6:51 pm Post Number: #11 Post
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MegaMav wrote:

Look for balls with High INT Diff to transition the ball faster.
Stronger covers help too.

Cash, More Cash, Katana


I ordered the Cash from our importer. I got one with 3-4" pin.
Im thinking 35/4,75/35 with this one.
>>PICTURE<<

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Janne Palo
ProShop Operator / Bowling Center Staff
Squash & Bowling Center Seinäjoki, Finland
ETBF level 1 ProShop Driller / Manager
Stats:
PAP 6 over 1/16 down
17 mph
425 rpm
Rotation 75
Tilt 7 dg


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 Post subject: Re: 40 tilt 70 rot Track Cyborg & Radical Fix layouts
 Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 7:32 pm Post Number: #12 Post
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jannepalo wrote:

I ordered the Cash from our importer. I got one with 3-4" pin.
Im thinking 35/4,75/35 with this one.
>>PICTURE<<


Go for it!
Drill the ring finger 3.25" deep.

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 Post subject: Re: 40 tilt 70 rot Track Cyborg & Radical Cash layouts
 Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 6:58 am Post Number: #13 Post
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Couldn't find much info on modified DT. How is it different from DT (30* VAL and 4" PAP-PIN)

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Adrian

Right handed
PAP: 5 5/8 up 3/4
Speed: 14 mph off hand
Rev: 300 RPM
Axis tilt: 15*
Axis rotation: 60*


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 Post subject: Re: 40 tilt 70 rot Track Cyborg & Radical Cash layouts
 Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 5:30 am Post Number: #14 Post
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http://forum.bowlingchat.net/viewtopic.php?p=73730#p73730

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* MPH @ aarows
* RPM
AR *
AT *
PAP 3 3/4"
(* rebuilding)

“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.”
― Neil deGrasse Tyson


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 Post subject: Re: 40 tilt 70 rot Track Cyborg & Radical Cash layouts
 Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 6:40 am Post Number: #15 Post
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Dustin wrote:


Thanks. From the post and the other posts which it led me to, the Modified DT gives a lot of flexibility and combinations of PAP-PIN distance and balance hole location.

PAP-PIN distance - "a modified double thumb layout with the pin 4 1/2 -5 " to the PAP" viewtopic.php?p=3863#p3863

and Mo said, "Try a "Double Thumb" angle set up with a 4 3/4" pin to PAP distance. The balance hole options become endless. It's, then, up to how good your decisions are." viewtopic.php?p=3870#p3870

The PAP-PIN distance of modified DT layout can be somewhere between 4.5" (or 4"?) to 5". And the balance hole location can be further away from the thumb hole (1.5 inches base). The modified DT layout is good for low tilt bowler to reduce jumpiness if I understand correctly.

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Adrian

Right handed
PAP: 5 5/8 up 3/4
Speed: 14 mph off hand
Rev: 300 RPM
Axis tilt: 15*
Axis rotation: 60*


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