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 Post subject: WTBA Los Angeles Pattern
 Posted: Sat May 24, 2014 2:16 pm Post Number: #1 Post
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Hi, this year's Melbourne Cup in Australia is on the WTBA Los Angeles pattern (36 feet). Has anyone had any experience/ success bowling on this pattern?

I'm assuming it's an outside shot similar to the Cheetah. We also need to try and find a way to stop Belmonte winning it again...

Thanks for any feedback.

Dean

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 Post subject: Re: WTBA Los Angeles Pattern
 Posted: Tue May 27, 2014 6:58 pm Post Number: #2 Post
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To date, this is the hardest pattern I have ever bowled on in terms of getting to the pocket - for whatever reason. I just could not miss in any direction and expect a decent result. 2 boards outside intended target was a headpin miss or worse a washout. 2 boards inside and it was a 2-4-7 or worse a split.

I wasn't the only one though. Leader averaged 210 over 6 games - with several PBA regional members in the field. The cut was -55 (191 Average) with 64 bowlers in the field and 10 making the cut...

FWIW, I played it how it's supposed to be played - out by the gutter straight up and outside with some belly - with no success either way. Not sure if it was lane topography issues or not (AMF synthetics). I tried everything in my arsenal at the time (Nano down to a Black U-Dot) and could not match up with anything except for one game with an IQ Tour Pearl on one pair of lanes.

Also for FWIW, one of the guys on my pair, a righty who made the cut, mostly played 9-7 with an IQ Tour Solid. Which would be slightly different than textbook...

Good luck, let us know how you do.


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 Post subject: Re: WTBA Los Angeles Pattern
 Posted: Tue May 27, 2014 11:33 pm Post Number: #3 Post
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Thanks for taking the time to reply with some info.

I got to bowl 6 games on the pattern yesterday, and i had a similar experience to what you described. A lot of over/under and lots of single pins. I didn't miss the pocket much, and never crossed over, but stringing strikes was rarely achieved.

I started bowling up 5 board with the IQ Tour solid and couldn't miss when warming up, and i loved watching the ball peel off the outside even if i bumped it a few boards right, but then the ball started to hang at times and the reaction got extremely release sensitive. Then it got to the point that what to me looked and felt like identical shots reacted very differently; one washed out and one went sideways and left a 4 pin (same lane, and same line). Not what I'm used to seeing!

I changed to my 714C, which is a great control ball, and moved in a board and this got me into the pocket every shot, but carrying all 10 was still tough. I then tried a motion holed Marvel Pearl, which transitioned a lot quicker once it left the pattern, but was very release sensitive for getting the ball to do the same thing twice.

In the last few games i used the 505C2, and this finally gave me a bit of area (a few boards!) playing up 7 board and i felt i could attack the shot a bit more.

I really enjoyed the challenge and given more time to try a few things I'm sure i could find a way to improve carry, but the inconsistency in ball reaction was something else.

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 Post subject: Re: WTBA Los Angeles Pattern
 Posted: Wed May 28, 2014 12:20 am Post Number: #4 Post
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deanchamp wrote:
I started bowling up 5 board with the IQ Tour solid and couldn't miss when warming up, and i loved watching the ball peel off the outside even if i bumped it a few boards right, but then the ball started to hang at times and the reaction got extremely release sensitive. Then it got to the point that what to me looked and felt like identical shots reacted very differently; one washed out and one went sideways and left a 4 pin (same lane, and same line).


my same exact experience...but on the left side of the lanes!!!

In practice I couldn't miss with the IQ Tour Solid playing up 5 and then when the lights went on and the adrenaline was pumping...the look I had was completely gone. I was lost for 2 games, found something with the IQ Pearl and then jumped to another pair and that was gone. The last 3 games was me searching and being lost in whatever transition was happening across the house.

One of the most challenging and frustrating days I've ever experienced. Despite all that, I want another shot at it.


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 Post subject: Re: WTBA Los Angeles Pattern
 Posted: Wed May 28, 2014 10:57 pm Post Number: #5 Post
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If the outsides are worn due to lack of conditioner outside ten (most house patterns) then this pattern is basically unplayable. Every pair and sometimes every shot will react differently. The lack of friction on the lane surface outside makes it very touchy to any depletion or carrydown and it's very difficult to play inside because of the length.
Modern house shots and the resultant panel wear make short sports patterns go feral very quickly, unfortunately. Make good shots and spare everything. Have fun ;).

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 Post subject: Re: WTBA Los Angeles Pattern
 Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 12:00 pm Post Number: #6 Post
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deanchamp wrote:
Hi, this year's Melbourne Cup in Australia is on the WTBA Los Angeles pattern (36 feet). Has anyone had any experience/ success bowling on this pattern?

I'm assuming it's an outside shot similar to the Cheetah. We also need to try and find a way to stop Belmonte winning it again...

Thanks for any feedback.

Dean


I use this pattern in some of my demos included in my seminars. It is the easiest of the WTBA short patterns. I see a lot of the posts talk about how hard this pattern is. If thaty's the case, the other WTBA short patterns will be impossible. Sydney is the toughest of the short WTBA patterns. The complicating issues on all the short patterns are lane topography and the condition of the lane machine, especially the cleaning section.


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 Post subject: Re: WTBA Los Angeles Pattern
 Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 12:15 pm Post Number: #7 Post
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I use this pattern in some of my demos included in my seminars. It is the easiest of the WTBA short patterns. I see a lot of the posts talk about how hard this pattern is. If that's the case, the other WTBA short patterns will be impossible. Sydney is the toughest of the short WTBA patterns. The complicating issues on all the short patterns are lane topography and the condition of the lane machine, especially the cleaning section.

That's interesting Mo as this was posted on Sunday after i had had a practice on the pattern:

"Change to lane Maintenance Machine for MTC... We previously advised a Brunswick "A22" would be used for lane conditioning during the 2014 MTC. After programming, laying and taping of the "LA Short" pattern with the A22 we were unable to accomplish a satisfactory laying of the pattern. Subsequently we changed the oiling machine for the event to a Kegel Kustodian which is producing the advertised "LA Shot" pattern significantly better."

I'm guessing i didn't get the proper oil pattern at the time. The centre that it is being bowled in is only a few years old so the lanes are in great condition still.

Belmo has also pulled out of the event so everyone feels they have a chance now!

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 Post subject: Re: WTBA Los Angeles Pattern
 Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 3:52 pm Post Number: #8 Post
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deanchamp wrote:
I use this pattern in some of my demos included in my seminars. It is the easiest of the WTBA short patterns. I see a lot of the posts talk about how hard this pattern is. If that's the case, the other WTBA short patterns will be impossible. Sydney is the toughest of the short WTBA patterns. The complicating issues on all the short patterns are lane topography and the condition of the lane machine, especially the cleaning section.

That's interesting Mo as this was posted on Sunday after i had had a practice on the pattern:

"Change to lane Maintenance Machine for MTC... We previously advised a Brunswick "A22" would be used for lane conditioning during the 2014 MTC. After programming, laying and taping of the "LA Short" pattern with the A22 we were unable to accomplish a satisfactory laying of the pattern. Subsequently we changed the oiling machine for the event to a Kegel Kustodian which is producing the advertised "LA Shot" pattern significantly better."

I'm guessing i didn't get the proper oil pattern at the time. The centre that it is being bowled in is only a few years old so the lanes are in great condition still.

Belmo has also pulled out of the event so everyone feels they have a chance now!


Topography can be bad on a new installation, as well as on an older one.


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 Post subject: Re: WTBA Los Angeles Pattern
 Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:02 pm Post Number: #9 Post
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At what point do you guys decide to just use plastic / urethane with a more direct trajectory at the pocket?

Just trying to see the thought process.

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 Post subject: Re: WTBA Los Angeles Pattern
 Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 7:48 pm Post Number: #10 Post
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steelerfanatic wrote:
At what point do you guys decide to just use plastic / urethane with a more direct trajectory at the pocket?

Just trying to see the thought process.


That may work, but pin carry could definitely be an issue.


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 Post subject: Re: WTBA Los Angeles Pattern
 Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 7:55 pm Post Number: #11 Post
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For me on a good surface this is by far the easiest sport pattern. Most bowlers I see make their hold hang, and never really get to the friction by getting their feet and eyes far enough right. Also, as Mo has told us, use balls with an elongated breakpoint. Ball has to read the pattern quickly, but with control. Just because their is hook, doesn't mean you want a ball to go longer.

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 Post subject: Re: WTBA Los Angeles Pattern
 Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 8:20 pm Post Number: #12 Post
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Mo Pinel wrote:
steelerfanatic wrote:
At what point do you guys decide to just use plastic / urethane with a more direct trajectory at the pocket?

Just trying to see the thought process.


That may work, but pin carry could definitely be an issue.


I agree, but the problem statement already included the fact that a worse result was happening. For me the ultimate goal is to manage the pocket then adjust for carry. The problem described here was not being able to consistently get to the pocket.

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 Post subject: Re: WTBA Los Angeles Pattern
 Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 1:16 pm Post Number: #13 Post
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The Melbourne Cup bowlers have posted some huge scores in qualifying on the Los Angeles pattern, with a high average after 9 games of 248.11, and a high series (3 game block) of 849 which included back to back 300s.

Some great Aussie talent on display!

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 Post subject: Re: WTBA Los Angeles Pattern
 Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 3:44 pm Post Number: #14 Post
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deanchamp wrote:
The Melbourne Cup bowlers have posted some huge scores in qualifying on the Los Angeles pattern, with a high average after 9 games of 248.11, and a high series (3 game block) of 849 which included back to back 300s.

Some great Aussie talent on display!


Not all lane machines put the pattern down the same way. Topography must be good.


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 Post subject: Re: WTBA Los Angeles Pattern
 Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 1:30 pm Post Number: #15 Post
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Mo Pinel wrote:
deanchamp wrote:
Hi, this year's Melbourne Cup in Australia is on the WTBA Los Angeles pattern (36 feet). Has anyone had any experience/ success bowling on this pattern?

I'm assuming it's an outside shot similar to the Cheetah. We also need to try and find a way to stop Belmonte winning it again...

Thanks for any feedback.

Dean


I use this pattern in some of my demos included in my seminars. It is the easiest of the WTBA short patterns. I see a lot of the posts talk about how hard this pattern is. If thaty's the case, the other WTBA short patterns will be impossible. Sydney is the toughest of the short WTBA patterns. The complicating issues on all the short patterns are lane topography and the condition of the lane machine, especially the cleaning section.


As a follow up, I've now bowled on Sydney and Beijing and will concur that LA is easier than both. Sydney had me scratching my head. I had a good look on Beijing but just could not replicate shots.

I have a newfound respect for all of the WTBA patterns - they are very hard. It didn't help that my intro to WTBA patterns was Paris - the easiest of the bunch. I think it colored my perception of the series of patterns quite a bit...


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 Post subject: Re: WTBA Los Angeles Pattern
 Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 12:41 pm Post Number: #16 Post
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I have bowled many games and seen many more bowled on these patterns. I have the most success on LA with stronger asym equipment with surface playing out. Depending on lane surface I generally start outside first arrow with my target and break point. As I start to generate good consistent friction I then chase inside some. When my eyes start to target 9-10-11 at the arrows, I generally look to ball down, or move to the short pin to pap drillings on strong asyms.

This type of thought process so far as yielded success in regards to scores and control of the pocket for longer periods of time. This again, will depend on lane surface and the bowlers you are crossing with and behind.

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 Post subject: Re: WTBA Los Angeles Pattern
 Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:53 pm Post Number: #17 Post
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halfaclue wrote:
I have bowled many games and seen many more bowled on these patterns. I have the most success on LA with stronger asym equipment with surface playing out. Depending on lane surface I generally start outside first arrow with my target and break point. As I start to generate good consistent friction I then chase inside some. When my eyes start to target 9-10-11 at the arrows, I generally look to ball down, or move to the short pin to pap drillings on strong asyms.

This type of thought process so far as yielded success in regards to scores and control of the pocket for longer periods of time. This again, will depend on lane surface and the bowlers you are crossing with and behind.


Well said and explained, as usual.


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 Post subject: Re: WTBA Los Angeles Pattern
 Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 2:30 am Post Number: #18 Post
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Bowled on LA again in a different house and on the left side of the lane outside of 7 did not play.

What halfaclue said though was what happened on the right side - up 5 with surface played well the first couple of games and then the righties were able to chase in 8-10 at the arrows with a little belly out playing well.

After we were done, we were allowed to walk down the area besides lane 1 and found several interesting things:

1. The pattern was applied correctly. It was 36 ft and there was a slight taper at the end of the pattern as seen in the overhead graph. You could see the heavy volume of oil in the right place and the finger smear test more or less confirmed the pattern's ratio.

2. There was heavy carry down at the end of the pattern that extended the pattern in random 3 ft strips out to 39 ft on both sides of the lane outside of 10 (where everyone was playing). Halfaclue's strategy to move in a little bit as the games progress makes perfect sense.

3. There was not as much carry down after 39 ft but there were random 3 inch strips from bow ties here and there all the way to the pins - but nothing major.

The carry down at the end of the pattern was an eye opener for me. I did not expect it to be so pronounced. I am curious as to why it stopped there and didn't go further. Anyone venture a guess? My guess is that it's the 1st flare ring after exiting the pattern being tight against the last flare ring that was in oil, therefore leaving oil on the lane and then transitioning to the next flare ring and finally hitting dry surface area. This make sense?

Also, I'm still baffled as to why inside of 5 plays better for me on this pattern. I had a great look up 7 all night. It might have to do with my speed dominance and shooting past the "proper" break point...


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 Post subject: Re: WTBA Los Angeles Pattern
 Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:56 pm Post Number: #19 Post
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Mo Pinel wrote:

I use this pattern in some of my demos included in my seminars. It is the easiest of the WTBA short patterns. I see a lot of the posts talk about how hard this pattern is. If thaty's the case, the other WTBA short patterns will be impossible. Sydney is the toughest of the short WTBA patterns. The complicating issues on all the short patterns are lane topography and the condition of the lane machine, especially the cleaning section.


And now I understand the comment "It is the easiest of the WTBA short patterns". I bowled in a tournament yesterday on this pattern, did not throw it particularly well, and went +38 over 5 games. Outside of 5 was very playable on the left with some tug room inside of that - that's something I have not seen in any of the centers that I've bowled on this pattern.


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