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 Post subject: Request regarding the "over rolled full roller"
 Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 1:00 am Post Number: #1 Post
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I would like to see a video of a decent bowler who uses this release. Is there anyone who could post a video? I putting out the challenge to post a video because until I see it, it doesn't exist for me. I've heard it described, I heard it talked about, but I have yet to see it. If it's real, then let's see it!

Thanks

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 Post subject: Re: Request regarding the "over rolled full roller"
 Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 4:53 pm Post Number: #2 Post
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You might be in for a bit of a wait...

I have only seen 7 or so in 25+ years of shop work, only one of which was recent. I will see if I have video of him of his old release and his Dad's permission to put it up...

It will not look obvious, he looked like your typical out of balance 12 year old rev dominant player. His main issues causing the problem were excessive grip pressure and a habit of rotating the hand too early.

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 Post subject: Re: Request regarding the "over rolled full roller"
 Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 2:43 am Post Number: #3 Post
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If I can get together with the guy I know who rolls like this and he would let me post the video it is very odd to say the least. Not sure when I will get the chance but will see what I can do. Reminds me of skipping a rock across water.

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 Post subject: Re: Request regarding the "over rolled full roller"
 Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:53 am Post Number: #4 Post
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Thanks, hopefully we can get a video up. I'm sure there are many others who would like to see this too. Adding some close up shots of the oil rings on the ball when it comes back up the return would prove where the track actually is.

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 Post subject: Re: Request regarding the "over rolled full roller"
 Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 3:53 pm Post Number: #5 Post
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Yeah, I knew this one guy and he threw so much of a full roller that the track was on the opposite side of the ball! Yeah, yeah that's the ticket, WAY on the opposite side of the ball! His track was so special that they had to come up with a layout just for him! Yeah they call it the "over-rolled full roller", cause it's like a full roller but, you know, OVER rolled.

Yeah, yeah, and I'll get a video of him that proves it's true! I'll get that video, uh yeah next week. And yeah, here's the ticket, he doesn't look like he's bowling he looks like he's skipping stones! Yeah, skipping stones, that's the ticket! :roll: :roll: :roll:

:D :D

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 Post subject: Re: Request regarding the "over rolled full roller"
 Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 4:05 pm Post Number: #6 Post
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sprocket wrote:
Yeah, I knew this one guy and he threw so much of a full roller that the track was on the opposite side of the ball! Yeah, yeah that's the ticket, WAY on the opposite side of the ball! His track was so special that they had to come up with a layout just for him! Yeah they call it the "over-rolled full roller", cause it's like a full roller but, you know, OVER rolled.

Yeah, yeah, and I'll get a video of him that proves it's true! I'll get that video, uh yeah next week. And yeah, here's the ticket, he doesn't look like he's bowling he looks like he's skipping stones! Yeah, skipping stones, that's the ticket! :roll: :roll: :roll:

:D :D


What?
What was that mess?

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 Post subject: Re: Request regarding the "over rolled full roller"
 Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 4:17 pm Post Number: #7 Post
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...just trying to inject some humor with the above post. :D Apparently there is more video of Bigfoot than the over-rolled full roller. BUT, guess what I just remembered?

Back in the mid '80s when I was still young, I bowled a morning league with a bunch of old guys on my team. All of them are now dead. Best team I was ever on. Anyways one of the old farts had a very odd release. This memory just came out of the cobwebs of my mind but I remember looking at his ball once and the track was on the other side! I can still picture his release:

He had a suitcase grip and his wrist was bent back slightly. When he got to the release point his elbow would bend and his hand position on the ball would look like if you were holding a glass. When he released the ball his had was at about center and his wrist would collapse more, but remain sideways. He would then more or less push the ball as he let go. His release was short; the extension of his arm went to about the middle of his body.

I can totally visualize in my mind now how that would put the track on the other side of the ball, but it seems like it would be rotating clockwise. He threw a hook though.

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 Post subject: Re: Request regarding the "over rolled full roller"
 Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 11:48 pm Post Number: #8 Post
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Sprocket...

This is the last video I have of the last "inverted full roller" I have encountered.



He is currently a work in progress, and no longer tracks inverted. Not even close. We have been using extreme performance fits and coaching to get him where he is at currently. Unfortunately, I no longer have the video from 2009 when we started this process. Before/after specs and some history can be found here... http://forum.bowlingchat.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=8611

Sorry, but I refuse to have him try and repeat it so I can video it again just for you! If you can imagine him not as open at the top of the swing by about 90 degrees and bringing the hand to the outside much earlier in the down-swing and falling off at the line you pretty much have it.

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 Post subject: Re: Request regarding the "over rolled full roller"
 Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 12:42 am Post Number: #9 Post
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Thanks, rmack. I have read a few threads on different forums where bowlers have asked questions about their tracks being on the wrong side of the ball. In each case they were able to correct it after receiving some advice. Therefore finding an actual video has proved to be elusive. Even finding a screen shot of a ball with the track on the wrong side is impossible for me to find. Of course that could be easily faked simply by having a lefty throw the ball.

Now, I believe you, really. I believe everyone who says they have seen one and I'm pretty sure I have seen one as well as I described in my previous post. I do think it's possible for someone to come to a forum claiming to have a track on the wrong side just to mess with people.

I'm still in a quest to find a video of a reasonably good bowler using this release who really has no intention of changing. I just thought of something.... I think I might know of an existing video that MIGHT fit the description. The next post will include it.

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 Post subject: Re: Request regarding the "over rolled full roller"
 Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 1:09 am Post Number: #10 Post
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OK, read my post above first and then here it is. Maybe. Maybe not. 2:12


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 Post subject: Re: Request regarding the "over rolled full roller"
 Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 5:19 am Post Number: #11 Post
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No. The first ball Mr. Varipapa throws @ 2:12 is tilted quite a bit, very small spinner track.

The release motions and general ball reaction I have seen in the past have varied. The one common denominator has been rotation of the hand early in the down swing usually accompianied by a very high rotation angle. Amount of hook is varied based on the rest of the factors involved.

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 Post subject: Re: Request regarding the "over rolled full roller"
 Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 6:51 am Post Number: #12 Post
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I used to bowl with an inverted track - tracked through the ring finger. (Loooong time ago now) Thumb flips up at release as per full roller only more forcefully, then fingers rotate. Someone gave me a Cobra to try and I flipped the track 1" right of the rf and about 2.5" from thumb.
Retrained the release to thumb down, now have 15* tilt and a 'normal' track. Not sure if I can even throw the ball that way any more but I'll give it a try - I still thump thumbhole if I use a brace so that might 'help'. FWIW I still managed decent rotation and revs on the ball.

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 Post subject: Re: Request regarding the "over rolled full roller"
 Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 4:08 pm Post Number: #13 Post
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I have a bowler who does this. And does it well enough to be a local scratch star. Ill video him on sunday and post here. Ill also show two of his balls witb fresh tracks on them. The layouts will be unique as well.


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 Post subject: Re: Request regarding the "over rolled full roller"
 Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 5:14 pm Post Number: #14 Post
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That would be great! I would REALLY like to see this release in action and I'm sure a great many others would as well.

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 Post subject: Re: Request regarding the "over rolled full roller"
 Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:07 pm Post Number: #15 Post
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I've only seen 3 in my drilling days. Gave them the over-rolled full roller layout from the wiki and they never hit the gripping holes again. In fact, one of them was a two-hander. Very weird to see when it comes up but read the wiki to fix the track hitting the holes.

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 Post subject: Re: Request regarding the "over rolled full roller"
 Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 3:37 pm Post Number: #16 Post
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roymunson858 wrote:
I have a bowler who does this. And does it well enough to be a local scratch star. Ill video him on sunday and post here. Ill also show two of his balls witb fresh tracks on them. The layouts will be unique as well.


Any chance on getting this video? I'd love to see it.

I have no idea what the heck I'm doing. I'm working on trying to increase tilt and in the process I've gotten less and have, what appears to me, to be a over-rolled full roller track. I gotta find a good camera and get a video in the coaching session stat.

I picked up a left-handed throw-away high performance ball off the rack tonight and after throwing it, it had a nice left-handed track on it. I'm right handed...


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 Post subject: Re: Request regarding the "over rolled full roller"
 Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 4:46 pm Post Number: #17 Post
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Well, there's still more video proof of Bigfoot than there is of this release!

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 Post subject: Re: Request regarding the "over rolled full roller"
 Posted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 1:12 am Post Number: #18 Post
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Found these 2 posts in the coaching section, I think this guy is overrolled w/negative tilt

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=8913

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=8915

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 Post subject: Re: Request regarding the "over rolled full roller"
 Posted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 2:53 am Post Number: #19 Post
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Eric, I've been pausing his release very close to the bottom and he has this weird elbow bend and perhaps has unusual bone structure in his arm. His forearm is kicked out in a way that appears to allow him to cock the ball yet not have his hand to the inside of the ball. Right at release his hand appears to be at or above center line which would indeed result in the lower half of the ball contacting the lane which would either result in a full roller or very possibly negative tilt.

However, without seeing the actual track on the ball I'm still not convinced that he is over rolled to the extent that has been talked about when discussing layouts for this release. I can't see his track being as severely on the other side of the ball as I have heard discussed before, but maybe I'm wrong.

Thanks for finding these videos! They are not exactly what I had envisioned but maybe this is truly it. I'd like to see more.

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 Post subject: Re: Request regarding the "over rolled full roller"
 Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 4:30 pm Post Number: #20 Post
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I HAVE FINALLY SEEN PERHAPS ONE OF THE WORST OVER ROLLED FULL ROLLERS EVER!!! Now, I have done the inverted core layout before for this style, but the one I did yesterday takes the cake! This man, no joke, had negative 24 degrees of tilt, and a PAP that was 9 inches over, and one inch up. His initial track was so far off from the gripping holes, it didn't even have time to flare onto them! Usually an over rolled full roller will thump every gripping hole, so the inverted layout makes the ball flare backwards and hence miss the gripping holes. Anyways, I'll try to get a video. I had to check his PAP like 4 times to make sure but it was a DOOOOOOZY. Gave him the 300 x 4.5 x 120 layout and he is quite happy.

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